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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 06:35 AM
UFO
 
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If you consider a Ducati only consider the ST4s. Motorcyclist just did a big review on it and loved it.

I test road a Futura this spring and wasn't blown away.
http://www.ulen.com/cyclepics/useful...utura_ride.htm
The bike wasn't broke in so I had to baby it, but the FI seemed really glitchy down low, and I'm not sure how I'd like the lumpiness of a v-twin in a ST bike.

ST1100 is too far on the touring side for me. The FJR1300 looks kinda cool, but same story...maybe a tad too much tourer in it. The Triumph seems like a very capable bike. The BMW is good only if you want to spend $$$. I still like performance in an ST. The ZZR also looks good. It's really a challenge to buy a BAD bike these days. Suzuki's ST would probably be the Hayabusa...but it's more of a GT or hyper ST.

And the VFR...what can you say about it that hasn't been said already. Do you ever hear anyone say anything bad about this bike?

My list would be (without doing extensive research):
1) VFR (aaaahhh, v4 goodness!!)
2) ST4s/Futura (would have to learn to love the vtwin lump, lump)
3) ZZR/Triumph ST
4) FJR
5) ST1100
6) BMW

Last edited by UFO; 10-25-2001 at 06:39 AM.
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 06:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by UFO
And the VFR...what can you say about it that hasn't been said already. Do you ever hear anyone say anything bad about this bike?

The new ones headed to the US only come in red! ARGH!
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 06:48 AM
 
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Tough choice, I'm now working an extra job so I hopefully will have to make the same choice.

Because I'm looking for something for 2-up riding I'm mainly considering the following.

The Triumph; a very well balanced package, but expensive to maintain. ( only 1 dealer around here ).

ST1300. I think it might be a little heavy for in town by myself but is probably the best for 2-up.

The Kawi, It looks like it might be the best compromise. FI might be nice but it seems that it always takes a couple years before they get it right anyways.

VFR, if it were just me, I think this would be the one. However, I think its underpowered for its weight. A 600 makes the same HP! ( ya, I know Torque......... blah, blah, blah.... no excuse for only 85 hp out of 800 cc)


If my luck keeps up this might be a mute point for me anyways, my kids a due for University soon and I can already see my "Toy fund "shrinking.

Last edited by oldgixer; 10-26-2001 at 06:05 AM.
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by oldgixer



VFR, if it were just me, I think this would be the one. However, I think its underpowered for its weight. A 600 makes the same HP! ( ya, I know Torque......... blah, blah, blah.... no excuse for only 85 hp out of 800 cc)


85 horses? Not sure that's right. MCN has it in the 105-108 range.

Last edited by Bonk!; 10-25-2001 at 07:06 AM.
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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Excellent comments, Thanks.

Rouge, I agree to a degree about weight, remember, I'm the Token Harley Boy here, my current ride is a Road King. But as I tend to do more shorter jaunts 300-500 mile loops in these glorious mountains, I tend to be leaning more to the sport side (read light).

The ZZR gets a stab for being a carb bike, vs. the ZX-12 which has a well sorted FI system. The local dealer shares my opinion, "What were they thinking?" No luggage, no FI, no Shaft...all the things a serious tourer generally wants...strange.

Good points on the dealership issues pertaining to the Aprilia, definately a negative. And UFO, I did read your review, and excellent one BTW, you write good evaluations, please do more! Also agreed that it takes a little getting used to astheticly.

The consistent negative about the VFR is that it's boring...it does everything well. The Maytag of Motorcycles, no soul, just a superb do-anything bike. That may actually effect my decision. I know this is directly opposite of emotionally detached logic, but I like a little "soul" in my bikes. I've had a long history with Brit-bikes, a few Harleys, some obscure European bikes (like Ossa's & Zundaps) and of course a slew of Japanese stuff. I like some "personality".

The ST1300 is a major update over the previous series, which are rarely seen for sale, excellent machines to be sure. A tad big for my tastes I think, but I'll try and get to see one come show-time in the Bay Area. Also have those linked brakes which I do NOT like. (I've played with panic stops with BMW's and VFR's...no-no-no thanks)

I did read the Motorcyclist review of the Ducati ST4s, and it sounds like something right up my alley, but I do have concerns over reliability. I have some doubts about Italian machinery liability (I've got friends with Ferraris, great soul, lousy reliability, and we all know that FIAT stands for "fix it again tony") however I've found Berreta firearms to be as good as anything else, superb really. We do have a decent dealer (now) about an hour away, plus quite a few more on the Californication side of the mountains, so that may not be as large a factor. The ST4s has an impressive array of component features and prices out fairly well. (15K)

As we have no word on the FJ1300, that's a big question mark. I would also have to travel to get ANY of the Japanese machines, as my local dealer doesn't cut many deals (however the parts department there is world class!)

I keep lingering on the Triumph too. Understand that I don't find it unattractive, however more feedback on reliability and maintenance costs would be welcome here. Agreed, the pricing on these is very attractive.

BMW: We've a good dealer an hour away, but they sure ain't cheap! I rode the RT1150 at Sears last summer and liked it (liked the K1200S more) But I haven't quite gotten passionate about either. The RT actually vibrated MORE than my Harley (a mechanical buzz through the footpegs and bars) Good power though and sure-footed handling. Also the windshield is fun to play with...good on boring interstates to amuse oneself

One very good point made earlier, there's really no "bad" bike among them. They're all excellent machines and would likely make me a happy camper. I'll keep searching reviews and try to get a little saddle time on each before thinning my wallet severely.

If you know any Ducati & Triumph riders, ask them to share their experiences: maint & reliability.

Thanks for your excellent feedback, please keep it up.
Regards,
Kev

Our greatest challenge in life is living up to our own potential.
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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bonk!
The new ones headed to the US only come in red! ARGH!
Ooops, my bad...totally forgot. You're completely right!!!

Kev, I also read the review on the ST4s and had me rubbing my chin going "Hmmmmm..." I have a friend who owns an ST2 (way down on power compared to and ST4s) and he loves it. My only concern is also the long term reliability and maintenance. I actually think the VFR has plenty of soul. A SSS, FI, racebred, V4 that sounds like complete heaven with some slipons? That's soul to me!

I'd wait until some of the reviews start rolling in on some of the new bikes (ZZR, VFR, ST1300, etc) and decide then. If you actually do a lot of two up touring you might want to stay away from the VFR. In my eyes is really is a solo tourer. Of course I always tour solo because my wife has her own bike.
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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bonk!


The new ones headed to the US only come in red! ARGH!
Bloody hell, don't get UFO started about red VFR,s again !

Did I mention WE get them in ALL the colours !!!

Ah, British humour, don't you just love it !!!!
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 10:56 AM
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Bastard!!!
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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 11:11 AM
 
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tahoe

The ZZR gets a stab for being a carb bike, vs. the ZX-12 which has a well sorted FI system. The local dealer shares my opinion, "What were they thinking?" No luggage, no FI, no Shaft...all the things a serious tourer generally wants...strange.


They're trying to save cost so they don't pass them on to you. It's got what's important(to me anyways!). Good(supposedly) wind and weather protection, comfy riding position, centerstand, range, gas gauge, and two most important characteristics: POWER and LOOKS.

FI is NOT a big deal. With 1200cc, you won't notice the power loss at high elevation. FI looses power too. My experience with my ZX11 is that it's throttle response at ALL speeds was excellent. Way better than the FI bikes I've ridden. I expect the same or better for the ZZR.



If you know any Ducati & Triumph riders, ask them to share their experiences: maint & reliability.


My good friend has an ST4 with 20k miles. He tours extensively on it with his wife on board. Maintenance is about $100 more than a Japanese bike. Everytime. Reliability is okay. He had a problem with an exhaust sensor falling off and making the bike backfire badly on one tour at 5k miles. He had to ride it all the way home 'cause there was no dealer close by to get a replacement part. Headlight seal broke at 10k miles so his lenses are all fogged up.

I know another Ducati owner(2000 748). First 3 months, gearbox ate itself. 3 months in the shop waiting for parts from Italy. Then clutch master cylinder broke. 1 month to get part from Italy.

I know two other guys with 2001 996's. No problems whatsoever. However, these bikes have less than 6k miles on them.

The other guy also has a 2001 748. After 6k miles of street riding, and another 6k miles at the track, engine threw a rod. The bike is maintained per Ducati's Owner's manual and never had any problems 'till now.
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 10-25-2001, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Rogue: I guess what's got me puzzled about the ZZR (yes it's a really great looking machine and should have plenty of smak) is that the bike is essentially a reworked ZX-11, is priced within $500 of the ZX-12, and lacks much of that bike's componentry. But it is great looking. My issue with injection versus carbs for the most part comes from living at high elevations. EFI is generally easily remapped (or automatic) whereas you generally have to go in and rejet a carbed bike. Agreed, it will undoubtably have ample power!

I also appreciate the details about the Ducati's...that has been a serious concern...parts availability and Italian time schedules

Again, I rarely tour 2-up and I did my Butt Burner years ago. I like to do about 400 miles on the high side, enjoy a nice dinner and a spa at the end of the day.

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