Why aren't the Ducati's running upfront in the AMA? - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Question Why aren't the Ducati's running upfront in the AMA?

The rumor is that Ducati might pull it's AMA racing team out for 2007. You wonder why the Ducati's aren't competing with the other top 5 machines in AMA Superbike when they seem to do quite well in World Superbike? Discussion, Opinions, Etc.?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 03:30 PM
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AMA Ducati

The Ducati's lost their advantage in 2003 when the AMA upped the displacement limit of 4 cylinder bikes from 750cc to 1000cc. The old rules allowed 1000cc twin cylinder bikes to compete with 750cc fours. The AMA never upped the displacement limit for the twins, which remains at 1000cc. I beleive that the rules still allow for a slight weight advantage for the twins, but the fact is, the 1000cc twins simply cannot compete against a 1000cc inline 4 as the AMA rules are currently written. I suspect that in World Superbike, they not only give a weight advantage to the twins, but also allow more engine mods vs the 4-cylinder bikes.

Ducati is lobbying the AMA for a displacement limit increase to 1200cc. As you mentioned, speculation is that Ducati will leave AMA racing if they don't get it.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-15-2006, 06:47 PM
 
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The World Superbike rule limit the bikes by use of restrictors sort of along the lines of NASCAR. Otherwise they fall under the same superbike rules that they use to run. One other difference between AMA ans WSB is that WSB has to use unleaded fuel. This isn't a major difference since they all use it but it is still a difference. They use different throttle bodies.

Rules are the difference. Everyone went to the 1000cc limit across the board the same season it's just that the AMA limits everyone to the same engine mods(not as unlimited as the old rules) and it puts the twins at a disadvantage.

In the old days the twins had a weight advantage of several pounds because even at 1000cc vs 750 they theoretically couldn't put out the same horsepower. As metals technology picked up and the twins got to where they could rev higher they closed that horsepower gap. As that gap closed they took away the weight advantage. Then it got to where the twins could reliable win the hp/torque war against the fours. So to eliminate the Ducati Cup like superbike series they upped the cc limit to 1000cc regardless of cylinder count. AMA rules are actually closer to being competitive than WSB when you really look at it. If they bump it up to 1200cc the Ducatis will dominate and we will look like WSB.

Personally I think they should leave the rules alone with exception of drop the twins weight limit by about 12lbs or so.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question Sounds complicated

John, you think just "12 lbs" would make the twin at least as competive as the 1000cc 4's. Doesn't sound like much of a weight advantage. Really hate to see Ducati go, they are all about road racing, no cruisers or dirt bikes, would it be a "unfair advantage" if the AMA let them go up to 1200cc for twins?? Would love to see Triumphs "triples" in AMA Superbike but I doubt that Triumph could really "afford" to race at the Super Bike level, RATS!

Of course I'm one of those old guys that would prefer to see only "one" 1000cc class, ie: Super Bike and one 600cc class, ie: Super Sport and the Forumla Extreme class be a "run what ya brung" class.

Thanks for the info.!
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 07:55 AM
 
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Re: Sounds complicated

Quote:
Originally posted by roadracefan
John, you think just "12 lbs" would make the twin at least as competive as the 1000cc 4's. Doesn't sound like much of a weight advantage. Really hate to see Ducati go, they are all about road racing, no cruisers or dirt bikes, would it be a "unfair advantage" if the AMA let them go up to 1200cc for twins?? Would love to see Triumphs "triples" in AMA Superbike but I doubt that Triumph could really "afford" to race at the Super Bike level, RATS!

Of course I'm one of those old guys that would prefer to see only "one" 1000cc class, ie: Super Bike and one 600cc class, ie: Super Sport and the Forumla Extreme class be a "run what ya brung" class.

Thanks for the info.!
Hard to say on the weight. 12lbs would be a big break on a Superbike but I'm no expert on that side of it. I'm sure the teams have an idea of what weight might make it more fair. I think 12lbs was the difference back in the mid 80s and then it got bumped up to I believe 7 lbs in the late 80s before going away all together.

I would love to see 1000cc Superbikes, 600 SS, FXtreme run what ya brung(just like the old FUSA bikes). I totally agree with that one. And maybe bring back Pro Thunder or bring back the Team Extreme endurance races. Those rocked. Of course that is where the old FXtreme came from. I miss those 2 hour endurance races.

1000cc Superstock is always going to be a Suzuki show. They are the ones that build the best streetbike ready for the track. Always have and always will be. Yamaha has come close a few times but they just can't quite overtake Suzuki in that department.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 05:52 PM
 
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Just wanted to point that you gain the equivelant of 1 horsepower for every 7 lb weight reduction.

So it seems to me that to make the Duc competitive by allowing a weight reduction, it would take quite a few more lbs than just 12.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 04:44 AM
 
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I have a couple insights on the issue after talking to Ben Boz yesterday. First, the Ducs looked great! They were hanging in there the whole superbike race. Second after talking to Ben he said the bikes have plenty of power, but they just can't turn. They need a lighter flywheel. Of course they don't have to worry about it anymore!
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 05:18 AM
 
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Re: Why aren't the Ducati's running upfront in the AMA?

Quote:
Originally posted by roadracefan
The rumor is that Ducati might pull it's AMA racing team out for 2007. You wonder why the Ducati's aren't competing with the other top 5 machines in AMA Superbike when they seem to do quite well in World Superbike? Discussion, Opinions, Etc.?
According to the mid ohio announcer they are NOT running next year..
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 05:27 AM
 
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According to Ben yesterday they are not running. In fact Ben is one of the only riders who doesn't know where he is going next year. Yates is going to Jordon, and some other big name is going to Kawi, but I can't remember who.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 05:46 AM
 
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I remembered another two

Tommy Hayden - Yoshi Suzuki
Jamie Hacking - Kawasaki

Last edited by slaterbj; 10-02-2006 at 06:16 AM.
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