How Close are our Street Machines - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2003, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question How Close are our Street Machines

Hi all;

I am a newbie here and to sport riding, but I LOVE watching the Road racing on SpeedTV (And just signed up for my first track day School).

I have a question though (Sorry if it is a silly one, I just don't know any better)...

How close is my 600cc stock showroom F4i to the FIM Supersport (Not superbike) machines I see racing on TV?

Close??? Worlds Different???

Anyone??? Anyone???

Thanks
Craig
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-22-2003, 08:57 AM
 
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Well not to make you feel bad.

I don't know if your talking about the AMA 600 races or what. But Eric Bostrom said that the bikes we ride are basically shit boxes compared to the stuff people race, and the only simularities are the name on the side of them.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-24-2003, 10:16 AM
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the world supersport-spec 600's are far superior to their ama counter-parts as well. they aren't quite a superbike 600, but they definitely ain't stock either.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-25-2003, 02:25 AM
 
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all true but a lot of the components are the same (engine wise anyhow) exept the race prepped bikes are have the hell tweaked out of them.

i think last years AMA 600's had 125hp, and that is about what the new 636 has. except of caurse the AMA 600 was rear wheel and the 636 is at the crank.

i maybe wrong but i think that this is all true?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-26-2003, 03:01 AM
 
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Just a different comparison...but a superstock 2000 model fireblade, laps at a similar pace to a late 80s 500gp bike, in dry conditions at Donington raceway.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2003, 06:38 AM
 
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The street bike 600s aren't very close to the FIM supersport machines but are actually pretty damn close to the AMA machines. The WSS machines are allowed more suspension mods and can do more to the engine internals. In the AMA the engine must retain OEM parts, clearences, etc. No metal can be removed from the inner surfaces. You must retain OEM fuel delivery components, stock wheels, rotors, calipers, etc. There are some things that can be done to retune the suspension but not much. Having a full crew with no real job other than optimizing the race bike is alot of what makes the factory SS bikes that much better not to mention the riders aren't worrying about money and having to wrench their own machines.

There are some scams that the factories pulled in the past that have been cracked down on somewhat. They have had those "special" parts avail. from the factory with the part numbers "hidden" somewhere in the OEM parts list. If you were able to find out the numbers a asked for them you would be told, "Sorry but those are own back order and will not be avail. until October or later. Kawasaki has done this in the past.

The HP numbers I've been told on the AMA factory 600s is aroun 116-120rwhp. The engine guys are pretty tight lipped about it.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2003, 07:09 PM
 
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Then agaim there's stock and there's "stock"

To a racer and a crew chief, a balanced and blueprinted engine is "stock"

We won't even mention the "DOT" tires they use..........
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-01-2003, 08:16 PM
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Another thing worth considering is that their suspension set-up is suited for handling corners at speeds seldom below 70MPH, whereas the street is seldom above 70. Those setups aren't really suitable for street riding.

What's very true is that anything after '90, when they added radial tires to the already improved suspensions and perimeter frames, is way better handling than anything from 20 to 30 years ago. They continue tweaking, but the real day and night change came with the radials. JMO

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-04-2003, 04:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by sinister988
Then agaim there's stock and there's "stock"

To a racer and a crew chief, a balanced and blueprinted engine is "stock"

We won't even mention the "DOT" tires they use..........
Not sure at what level you are talking with the balancing and blueprinting but the removal of metal in the engine is not allowed in the AMA. They can optimize internal clearances(without removing metal from components such as pistons, casings, etc.) but it is usually risky since they are only allowed a certain variance based on the reference machine provided to the AMA. The horsepower difference between well finance privateers and factory supersports is very minimal.

Also, most of the emissions crap is even required to be in tact.

You hit probably one of the biggest keys with regards to the racing and not the machine itself... tires. Tires are the big thing that separates the factory teams from the privateers. That gap has been closed quite a bit with the latest tires.

Suspension R&D is also a big factor as Dad touched on.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-05-2003, 03:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks

Thanks for the great info, this give me a little better idea of what I am seeing on TV.

RCJohn that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for, where did you get some of the info on the AMA 600 class... Is there a good web site that has info on the different classes and what is allowed in each, and what each class actually is.

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to read and reply to my post.

Craig
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