V-Rod finished last - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-21-2004, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Auburn, WA 98401
Posts: 1,490
V-Rod finished last

Next time you hear someone talking about how great a V-Rod is, how "fast" it is (I hear this all the time from those who own one), refer them to the latest edition of Rider Magazine.

They tested the big power cruisers (Rune, Vulcan 2000, V-Rod, V-Max, Triumph 2400). The V-Rod finished dead last in the final vote. Piss poor handling and the same for the ergonomics. Oh, and it got totally spanked in an accelleration show down by a bike that has basically remained unchanged since 1985: the V-Max.

First place? Triumph. I wouldn't buy one, but I guess it is not as bad as it looks.

Fuster

"...If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters the same....you'll be a Man, my Son!"

- Rudyard Kipling
fuster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-18-2004, 08:27 AM
Registered User
 
sfarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 29
It just came in first place in the recent Motorcycle Cruiser shootout, with essentially the same bikes. Except for the mighty V-Max it was fastest in the 1/4 mile. It also dropped the other bikes in the curves with its handling.
sfarson is offline  
post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-18-2004, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Auburn, WA 98401
Posts: 1,490
Face it, it is an overpriced P.O.S. Harley is selling the V-Rod to recover their millions they lost trying to race that motor for nine years, which broke or finished near the bottom of the heap even with top notch riders. If Honda tried the same thing, they'd sell it for way less, it would look better, handle better and go faster.


Fuster

"...If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters the same....you'll be a Man, my Son!"

- Rudyard Kipling
fuster is offline  
 
post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-18-2004, 08:13 PM
Registered User
 
sfarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 29
Sorry, don't agree. You've let those who brag about their V-Rods (whom I wouldn't agree with either) get under your skin.

What do you think of Honda's VTX?
sfarson is offline  
post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Auburn, WA 98401
Posts: 1,490
The VTX I have test ridden. I would like to see a touring version made with hard bags, etc. It is very long, longer than a Goldwing. Slow speed maneuvering is, well, very deliberate. But if you like instant power without having to downshift, this is a bike to consider. I initially wanted to wait until it was out a few years, now it has, and no major bugs in it. I like the looks, and it is shaft drive which theirs works well with this big power motor.

I went onto a VTX owner's web site once and chatted with some owners about long distance riding (which is what I like to do). One person could say he rode distances I considered "long" for a day's ride, and he had some previous credentials riding other bikes long distance, he felt it was a good one all day in the saddle. And less than half the price of a V-Rod.

Look, the V-Rod is way overpriced. I know a couple of persons who have it. If they want to pay over $27,000 for what is basically old technology by today's water cooled bike engine standards, in an over raked chassis that to me looks like a toilet, that is great (for Harley anyway). If I was going to throw money away on a cruiser, it would not be that bike, because I am just lining the pockets of Harley executives and I just don't care for the bike at all. And like I said, any Japanese or European company could make the same thing and put their "race" engine in the bike, and it would totally spank anything Harley tried to put out. Puleeze! Harley can't compete with Japan or Polaris in terms of power production from their main line of twins. So their response is sort of like Ford putting a Formula One race engine in their Crown Victoria because they can't match a Chevy for power (only the Ford race engine would not be a P.O.S. like the Hardley VR1000). And the Japanese have proven they have the designers to put out "cruiser" bikes that look more(/as) appealing than a Harley. So has, finally, Victory. The only reason left for most folks to buy Harleys is they want the name recognition. And like a magazine recently commented, if that is what you have to fall back on to sell your product, it is pathetic. At least charge a fair price.

Fuster

"...If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters the same....you'll be a Man, my Son!"

- Rudyard Kipling
fuster is offline  
post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 04:29 PM
Registered User
 
sidewaysducati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: At the love-in punching hippies
Posts: 1,173
From what I've seen, name recognition is all H.D. has anymore. I've known 3 people (fathers of buddies of mine) who have Harleys, and they spend ALL their time working on the hunks of crap. With the initial cost being so high, and the service frequency / cost also being very high, I can not understand the appeal. Just to look cool with a bunch of other dolts who made the same mistake, I guess.
sidewaysducati is offline  
post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 05:34 PM
Registered User
 
sfarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 29
As for the V-Rod, those paying $27K at the intro were not wise. Those paying $16K now for V-Rods love their bikes. I go to H-D forums and they are smitten. You might not be, but they are, and that's all that really counts. The $16k price is not that much different from a loaded $13k VTX1800. If you were in the executive suite in Milwaukee, your decisions wouldn't be much different if charged with building shareholder value (and you would be).

As for the positioning of the V-Rod, around 15,000 V-Rods were sold in the U.S. in '03. This is more than all BMWs combined, all Triumphs, Ducatis and Aprilias combined. Just one model. H-D struck a chord with this bike, and importantly, many of the buyers are new to the fold. New $$$ for Milwaukee versus trading $$$ with riders already loyal to the make. The V-Rod is the #1 selling Harley overseas and has opened the brand to many in other countries. Smart and strategic move, Milwaukee.

As for the Revolution engine, you're one of the few disliking it I've come across. I'm noting posts all the time from people wishing the engine would be in a different chassis. This engine, and who cares if it came from the VR platform, is outstanding with all kinds of potential built-in. If Harley is smart enough to put it in a street bike, good for them.

As for cruising, you miss what Harley recognizes. Cruising riders are content with keeping it below 100mph. They desire a deep and tourquey engine delivering great style, reliability, and an inimitable exhaust note. As for reliability, if you think the TC88 engine is unreliable you need to update your database. Harley recognizes the vast majority of riders are interested in cruising. The market dwarfs that for sportbikes, and it is growing, while the sportbike market is flat or is declining in many countries (esp Europe). Harley is pursuing a great strategy, delivering a great product (air-cooled and now water-cooled) in the biggest subcategory (cruising) and fastest growing (cruising). They have the needs and interests of this market nailed unlike any other manufacturer.

Name recognition all they have now? That is laughable. Maybe you don't read many cruiser reviews. From Motorcycle Consumer News on the Deuce:

Unlike Harleys of the past, these Softails go, turn and stop well -- not just "for Harleys," but just plain well.
At a time when Japanese sportbikes are upping the performance ante beyond our wildest dreams, it's a shame that its cruisers have been dumbed down almost beyond recognition. And it's nice to see a bike like the Deuce. It offers all the styling and resale value Milwaukee is famous for while putting its Japanese competition to shame in an arena they otherwise dominate.
So pick up the ball Japan. If you thought that cruiser riders only cared about looks, Harley-Davidson is a step ahead of you... again."


Me? I like all things two-wheeled... the BMW for dual-sporting, the Honda and Ducati for the nearby canyons, and the H-D for cruising. All are blissful. Sometimes I defend sportbikes to close-minded H-D riders. Sometimes I do the same at sportbike forums, who can't understand why anyone would not look like, think like, and ride like they. Zzzzzz. What a boring world that world be. Actually, the close-minded riders from both sides have more in common with each other than they think.
sfarson is offline  
post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
fuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Auburn, WA 98401
Posts: 1,490
sfarson, Harley does not make motorcycles. Those you say are "smitten" are in love not with a motorcycle but with a "lifestyle accessory". If you want one, go buy one. Bring tools and 24 hour towing!

Show me your source of data for your statement that a V-Rod outsells all other types of bike in Europe. I want to verify that, because it sounds like false information to me.

Fuster

"...If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters the same....you'll be a Man, my Son!"

- Rudyard Kipling
fuster is offline  
post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 06:09 PM
Registered User
 
sidewaysducati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: At the love-in punching hippies
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally posted by sfarson
Those paying $16K now for V-Rods love their bikes. I go to H-D forums and they are smitten.
This not all that huge a revelation. The vast majority of Harley owners love their bikes.(Oddly enough)

Quote:
As for the positioning of the V-Rod, around 15,000 V-Rods were sold in the U.S. in '03. This is more than all BMWs combined, all Triumphs, Ducatis and Aprilias combined.
The V-Rod is the #1 selling Harley overseas and has opened the brand to many in other countries.
50 million smokers can't be wrong.

Quote:
I'm noting posts all the time from people wishing the engine would be in a different chassis. This engine, and who cares if it came from the VR platform, is outstanding with all kinds of potential built-in. As for reliability, if you think the TC88 engine is unreliable you need to update your database.
With what information would I update my database? Where is the proof provided by an unbiased, objective source, that this motor is any more reliable than any of the other motors H.D. has produced?

Quote:
The market dwarfs that for sportbikes, and it is growing, while the sportbike market is flat or is declining in many countries (esp Europe). Harley is pursuing a great strategy, delivering a great product (air-cooled and now water-cooled) in the biggest subcategory (cruising) and fastest growing (cruising).
Again, is there an objective source from which you retrieved this data?

Quote:
From Motorcycle Consumer News on the Deuce:

Unlike Harleys of the past, these Softails go, turn and stop well -- not just "for Harleys," but just plain well.
At a time when Japanese sportbikes are upping the performance ante beyond our wildest dreams, it's a shame that its cruisers have been dumbed down almost beyond recognition. And it's nice to see a bike like the Deuce. It offers all the styling and resale value Milwaukee is famous for while putting its Japanese competition to shame in an arena they otherwise dominate.
So pick up the ball Japan. If you thought that cruiser riders only cared about looks, Harley-Davidson is a step ahead of you... again."
So far, you're 1 for 4 on sources.

-----
And before you dismiss me as a sportbike-only-squid-kracker, let me assure you, I have arrived at my convictions about Harleys as a result of witnessing first hand a good deal of Harley owners (3 of which I know personally) get put through hell trying to keep thier overpriced bikes on the road.

A few posts you claim to have seen, on an H.D. forum, no less, does not a good argument make.

Last edited by sidewaysducati; 12-19-2004 at 06:14 PM.
sidewaysducati is offline  
post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-19-2004, 06:59 PM
Registered User
 
sfarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Colorado
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally posted by fuster
sfarson, Harley does not make motorcycles. Those you say are "smitten" are in love not with a motorcycle but with a "lifestyle accessory". If you want one, go buy one. Bring tools and 24 hour towing!

Show me your source of data for your statement that a V-Rod outsells all other types of bike in Europe. I want to verify that, because it sounds like false information to me.
Well, it is clear you're coming from emotion and not fact. Too bad you broadstroke all H-D riders the same. One could say the same about sportbike riders... buying the lifestyle. Too bad you think I've needed tools and 24 hour towing. Wrong again. Your loss. Zero problems in four years. Can't say that about my BMW. Can say that about my Honda which I'm also smitten with.

Reread the post. I didn't say the V-Rod outsells all other types of bikes in Europe.
sfarson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome