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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Any comments????????

Any comments?

What do you all think about this one guys?

Chumley

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading"

"Flying is easy... You just have to throw yourself at the ground and miss"
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:23 PM
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come on Chumley you knew i'd pipe up on this didn't you.

Well i disagree!!!! ( theres a surprise) While i do agree that the run in initial stage is crucial to an engines life and performance i think the ring theory is flawed. This being the authors main theory its a big deal.
The author reckons that the pressure in the cylinder "creeps behind the ring to push it against the cylinder wall. Bollocks!!
Basic physics !!! The gap between the piston groove and ring is minimal and therefore would create a pressure drop as the gas goes from the smaller area ( between the cylinder wall and psiton) to the larger area ( behind the ring). Now bear in mind this force has travelled down the side of the piston, then made a rather abrupt 90 degree turn in order to "creep" between the ring and it's piston slot to gain access to the area behind the ring then exert force on the ring .....dont think so. And all this in a miniscule fraction of a second!!!!!!!

I would agree that the ever changing pressures in a cylinder will cause the pressure behind the ring to vary ( probably in a pulse manner) but thats about it. I just dont see it being able to exert force on the ring and certainly not in the amount of time it has.


Next

Had to use my step ladder to change a light bulb cos i don't get on with my real ladder.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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I knew it wouldn't be long BP....

So complete bollocks then?

A mate of mine here who's getting on a bit swore that the best thing to do with a new engine was to put a dash of ajax powder into each of the cylinders...



Mind you - this was probably when engine were bored out with 'ammer and chisel....

Chumley

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"Flying is easy... You just have to throw yourself at the ground and miss"
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-11-2007, 08:41 PM
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The other flaw in his theory is the concept that the faster the engine revs the higher the pressure in the cylinder is. Again bollocks.

The pics he shows seem to represent good evidence but merely show a good working piston and rings and one that is operating with a cylinder wall smeared with oil , that then combusts at iginition and leave the tell tale signs. No amount of behind ring/ oil scaping pressure would prevent this.

as for his oil changing recommendations he needs to study a few basic hydraulic priinciples first before coming out with his back garden shed maintenance recommendations.
The longer oil is in an engine the better it gets. It gets broken down and "polished" as we call it. This allows a more consistent coating of moving parts.

The only time to change oil is if it gets burnt or diluted by a foreign liquid ( water, fuel etc)


I've used the ajax thing before ( when i'd ran out of grinding paste)
The finest grinding paste is tooth paste.

Used to use micrometer blue, which is a kind of blue smooth paste on cylinder walls. The when you put the piston in the cylinder and then remove it, it shows the "high"spots on the piston in blue. Would then polish these areas with ajax then tooth paste. Of course later we used solvosol compound ( autosol) aluminium polish. Sounds like a lot of work but when you're tired of fixing siezed two strokes anything that helps is good

On four strokes i've seen people use a combination of mineral oil and ATF fluid during the run in period. ATF fluid is basically oil with a very high dope content and that serves 2 purposes. 1. slighty reduced visocsity therefore allowing more abrasion of parts while they wear in 2. The added dope allows the cleaning process so debris ( including burntoil particles) get carried to the oil filter.
( in auto gearboxes it maintains clear oil ways as auto gearboxes rely heavily on hydraulic principles, ports, valves etc.

While i'm on the hydraulics rant! If you ever get stuck in the middle on nowhere an no brake or clutch fluid. Use engine oil as a get me home solution. Both your brake and clutch system ( non cable) are basic hydraulic systems. any non compressable liquid will do. I've even seen guys use engine oil thinned with petrol

Of course these are get me home measures and you may screw your brake seals or hoses ...but heh ...riding wih no brakes isn;t a lot of fun either

Had to use my step ladder to change a light bulb cos i don't get on with my real ladder.

Last edited by bigphil; 09-11-2007 at 08:52 PM.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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In which case....

... there's seems to be a very wide difference of opinion in just how to run an engine in.

Well, with the new Hypermotard arriving TODAY you want to shed any light on how you lot would recommend running a bike in?

Have heard about 3 methods so far this week including doing a fairly gentle track day (Seems like just an excuse to me but who knows) but the overwhelming feeling is that you don't follow the manual...

I'm going to start a new thread with this seeing as BP seems to be the only one sticking his nuts out an offering an opinion....


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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 06:37 PM
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BP most of that did nothing much more than give me a headache but I do have a question for you.....

Quote:
Originally posted by bigphil
any non compressable liquid will do.
What liquid IS compressable??? I didn't think any was???

Ok now it's back to you plebs to talk about compression leaking and your favorite toothpaste for polishing the sink

Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gixxer_Dave
BP most of that did nothing much more than give me a headache but I do have a question for you.....

What liquid IS compressable??? I didn't think any was???

Ok now it's back to you plebs to talk about compression leaking and your favorite toothpaste for polishing the sink
Actually GD you're right. Its the impurites in certain liquids that give trouble. Sugar, additives , gas. that may compress.

one bloke asked me if he could top up his resovoir with coke.

Much as i like Heiniken i dont fancy howling into turn one on the brakes with "green tea" in the brake system

Had to use my step ladder to change a light bulb cos i don't get on with my real ladder.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 01:45 AM
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Re: In which case....

Quote:
Originally posted by Chumley
... there's seems to be a very wide difference of opinion in just how to run an engine in.

Well, with the new Hypermotard arriving TODAY you want to shed any light on how you lot would recommend running a bike in?

Have heard about 3 methods so far this week including doing a fairly gentle track day (Seems like just an excuse to me but who knows) but the overwhelming feeling is that you don't follow the manual...

I'm going to start a new thread with this seeing as BP seems to be the only one sticking his nuts out an offering an opinion....

Why bother with any running in . The wop engine will blow/fall to bits way before you ever get into any potential longevity benifit of a proper run in period

Had to use my step ladder to change a light bulb cos i don't get on with my real ladder.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gixxer_Dave
BP most of that did nothing much more than give me a headache but I do have a question for you.....



What liquid IS compressable??? I didn't think any was???

Ok now it's back to you plebs to talk about compression leaking and your favorite toothpaste for polishing the sink
hows that headache dave!! well if you go to molecular level most things are compressable albeit it by micoscopic amounts.

aside from "where eagles dare" heavy water has a bit to answer for

Had to use my step ladder to change a light bulb cos i don't get on with my real ladder.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-13-2007, 04:15 PM
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I know I shouldn't respond to any post containing the word 'molecular'..... I'm a bike rider not a farking scientist

Where eagles dare??? I know of the movie but still don't get it

So no word from Chum, he must be out riding around like a nancy running in the JCB

Is it weird in here, or is it just me?
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