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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 03:40 AM
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Good to be conversing with ya again.
Indeed my friend!

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You'll be back in the saddle before you know it. Heck... next year I may have an extra you can use out here. Working on a race only R6, hopefully in time to make the season ender this year.
if everything works out right, I will be looking to sell/trade my bike in favor of two 600's come winter time.

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I talk to tons of riders all the time and when I say sag they ask me where you can buy it.
Since you probably helped many more riders with this than I, how far out do you typically find the sag to be, prior to adjusting? I my expirience the factory specs arent that far out, consider most riders can't commit to any single type of road surface.




-- Thats Just The Way I Roll

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are".
-—Theodore Roosevelt

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
---Douglas MacArthur, General

"Beware of those in whom the urge to punish is strong".
---Johann Wolfgang Goethe


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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Vash View Post
Indeed my friend!
Ah... you were one of the few that I thought of first when I started posting here.

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if everything works out right, I will be looking to sell/trade my bike in favor of two 600's come winter time.
Sweet! One for track and one for street?

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Since you probably helped many more riders with this than I, how far out do you typically find the sag to be, prior to adjusting? I my expirience the factory specs arent that far out, consider most riders can't commit to any single type of road surface.
I have the fortune of running into people that are really big, and really small. Not a bunch in between. With that being said, and rider sag optimally being about 33% of the full stroke of the suspension for the street, I've seen many that are about 20% out of that. Examples are bikes with almost at 42 mm when we are trying to attain 35 (and thats for street, this guy actually track rode the bike). His rear was not much better at about 37 mm when we started. But by that point, I didn't want to get 35mm, I wanted to match the front. Which we couldn't do. Then, to complicate matters, he'd pulled his forks about 15mm through the tubes! This is all with the stock components. We pulled the tubes flush after I told him he already had the front lowered (42 mm sag in the front, 37 in the rear) and we actually got 1 mm sag in the front before sending his stuff off for springs. Some .95 and a 9.5 later, we have track setup at 28 and 28, and he has rolled considerable time off his laps, and still can ride the street well.

I run into all kinds. I'm trying to get formally schooled by a reputable suspension tuner, and I may start posting specific "case studies."

But... a whole bunch of typing later I realized I haven't really answered the question. MOST of the riders I encounter on the street, and many at the track don't know much of suspension. And the problem is, the handling characteristics are built around the geometry of a balanced chassis. And running out of suspension not only upsets the geometry of the machine, it places an undue sudden burden on the tires, as they have to take up the suspensions job if the component bottoms.

Part art, part science. I think it's a lot of fun.

Dan
1991 FZR 1000 - built 1040 with race cams, Akrapovic full exhaust, and mild suspension work
2004 YZF R1 - Graves full exhaust, velocity stacks, BMC race filter, and Power Commander. Rear Ohlins. Forks rblt with Race Tech springs and Gold Valves.
2005 20th Anniversary V-Max (0098/2000) - T boost,
2005 YZF R6 track bike - Graves full exhaust, Race Tech suspension
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 02:17 PM
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Sweet! One for track and one for street?
One for me, one for the girl. Both track, but might be sorta street legal. We'll see. My last attempt to make a sorta street legal track bike didnt go as well as I hoped.


Quote:

But... a whole bunch of typing later I realized I haven't really answered the question. MOST of the riders I encounter on the street, and many at the track don't know much of suspension. And the problem is, the handling characteristics are built around the geometry of a balanced chassis. And running out of suspension not only upsets the geometry of the machine, it places an undue sudden burden on the tires, as they have to take up the suspensions job if the component bottoms.

Part art, part science. I think it's a lot of fun.
Yep, that was my expirience as well, that most riders, even damn fast one, dont know a damn thing about suspensions. My biggest pet peeve is people who tell you to "use the sportrider settings" Cmon now, if there were perfect settings, suspensions wouldnt be adjustable.
There is a guy I know, who is really quick. He can ussually pass me at will within a few corners. He also happens to be a really short, light guy, 140lbs tops, maybe less. He "tuned" his suspension by going out, adjusting settings, untill he found what he liked. And that happen to have the preload dialed all the way in, with compression all the way out. Why would anyone do anything like that? It took me months to figure out, that what the guy really wanted, was a touch more rake to calm the bike down...




-- Thats Just The Way I Roll

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are".
-—Theodore Roosevelt

"In war there is no substitute for victory."
---Douglas MacArthur, General

"Beware of those in whom the urge to punish is strong".
---Johann Wolfgang Goethe


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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Vash View Post
Yep, that was my expirience as well, that most riders, even damn fast one, dont know a damn thing about suspensions. My biggest pet peeve is people who tell you to "use the sportrider settings" Cmon now, if there were perfect settings, suspensions wouldnt be adjustable.
There is a guy I know, who is really quick. He can ussually pass me at will within a few corners. He also happens to be a really short, light guy, 140lbs tops, maybe less. He "tuned" his suspension by going out, adjusting settings, untill he found what he liked. And that happen to have the preload dialed all the way in, with compression all the way out. Why would anyone do anything like that? It took me months to figure out, that what the guy really wanted, was a touch more rake to calm the bike down...
That's a tough way to go about it! Wow... does he realize as some point he's going to pack the suspension to a point it won't be able to return with the rebound locked.

I'd like to do a paper or some form of "Suspension for Dummies" writeup one day after I meet with the Suspension Guy and in a short form, explain what does what, and what needs to be adjusted under what. The good thing about the supsenion guru I'm meeting with is we are doing it on a track, and he's going to do things to my bike, and I'll provide the feedback. Thus, I'll learn what the different conditions feel like.

Aww heck... we've gone and hijacked someone else's thread. Again .

Uhm... if you have good suspension settings you may get better mileage?


Dan
1991 FZR 1000 - built 1040 with race cams, Akrapovic full exhaust, and mild suspension work
2004 YZF R1 - Graves full exhaust, velocity stacks, BMC race filter, and Power Commander. Rear Ohlins. Forks rblt with Race Tech springs and Gold Valves.
2005 20th Anniversary V-Max (0098/2000) - T boost,
2005 YZF R6 track bike - Graves full exhaust, Race Tech suspension
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