Honda CBR600RR engine failure at 2 years 3 months, 14000kms - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2009, 03:45 AM Thread Starter
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Honda CBR600RR engine failure at 2 years 3 months, 14000kms

Hi all

I am from South Africa and need some help.

In March 2007 I bought a March 2006 CBR 600RR from a Honda dealer in SA. I bought the unit with full service history, and a guarantee that the vehicle has not been in an accident - I have this in writing from the Honda dealer.

I bought the unit with 3000km on the clock. I did the bike up to 14 000km on the clock, when the engine popped. I took it in to the Honda dealer, who could not give me a quote or indication what had gone wrong. I proceeded to take my bike to an ex honda mechanic (Steve Cannon), who worked with Honda for > 20 years. Honda still outsources to him, to do jobs, as we speak. He is probably the most wellknown in SA, and prepares Honda bikes for race events.

The bike was repaired, with the problem being the bearings having failed. I was astounded. I have looked after this bike like my own child. It has been serviced with Honda regularly and on time.

When Steve opened the bike, he found a woodruff key/ flywheel key lock in the sump. To him this indicates the bike has been in an accident, and has been opened up to be fixed at some stage. This happened prior to me taking over the motorbike. It is amazing this bike actually lasted this long.

Additionally, I noticed on inspection, that the first service of the bike was done at 2389km, instead ot the specced 1000km. I purchased this bike with full service history, and this to me does not seem to be full service history. Honda (and most manufacturers) allow 10% up and down from the service interval. This is 140% over.

I have been told by Honda SA that the bike is fine, and has full service history. However, they will not show me any documentation regarding the service interval TOLERANCE limit for bikes - as mentioned, for Honda cars it is 10% either way.

I believe Honda should pay for this damage (even though it is out of warranty) - as the bike was opened up with a flywheel key, indicating prior damage and repair, which was not mentioned to me. The mechanic is prepared to put this in writing. Furthermore, I am trying desperately to get documentation for service interval TOLERANCE limits for my model of bike, to no avail.

I need some help, advice. Anything. I did not damage this motorbike. I don't wheelie (I can't), don't ride it hard (thing scares me, too much power), and I service dit when it should, yet I got screwed over.

Advice appreciated, ideally I would like some contacts from USA or Japan to liase regarding this matter, especially regaring the service interval tolerance limit, where my bike was serviced at 2389km instead of 1000km.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2009, 05:57 AM
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The service interval tolerance limit that you're looking for is not going to help you. Servicing the bike at 2400km vs. 1000km is not what caused your problem. Your complaint should be that you purchased a bike that had undisclosed damage.

I don't know how the legal system works in SA, but in the US your recourse would be through the dealer who sold you the bike, not Honda. However, you would have to have some sort of proof that the bike had been in an accident, not just the opinion of a famous mechanic based on his finding a Woodruff key, and that the dealer knew about it and lied. The dealer will argue that there are a number of ways for the key to have found its way into the sump- it could have been dropped in there on the assembly line - and unless they did work on it themselves and you can prove it by getting a subpoena for their service records, then it's a mechanic's opinion vs. their word. On top of that, you will also have to prove that the engine failure was caused by the accident. From your post I don't see what link you're claiming there. The dealer assembled the engine wrong? Something was damaged that caused the failure?

Your best bet at this point is to track down the previous owner and find out what really happened to the bike, then go from there.

"We didn't trade shoves; I did all the shoving." -Bobby Knight, 1981
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2009, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
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I tend to disagree with the service interval issue. I specifically requested a letter stating it has full service history. Even at this level, the bike was sold to me out of spec on service intervals with a letter stating that it is within spec. The issue is not even about what caused the problem, it is the fact that I was sold a bike that was out of spec on service tolerance limits, and i was provided with a letter that states that it is within limits. I purchased the bike via internet, 500km away, and that is why I requested this information. It was done through a Honda dealer, and as such I expected a good product, by paying a premium on the price, as opposed to buying privately. Had i done it privately, I would accept the blame now, fully.

I agree with the mechanical setup. Even worse, is the thing lasted 11 000km before popping. Don't understand it. All I know is I didnt do this.

As far as I am concerned I will take it to the media, and then they can lose customers. I am certainly not hardup for the money and the R4000 they are offering me is just to try and keep things quiet. They can then keep the money, and I will then take it to the media, strictly adhering to facts only.

I contacted previous owner. He denies he was involved in any kind of accident.

I do not know how the key got there. All that is said is that the only reason a key is foun din the sump, is because of an accident requiring work on the bike.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2009, 11:06 AM
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It is extremly unlikely that the slightly late oil change caused a bearing to fail thousands of miles later. Also have you had your valves adjusted? If you have, the key could have made it into your sump then (you have to access the flywheel to adjust the valves) If you haven't than the dealer will have good cause to claim it as the cause of the damage.

Taking it to the media sounds like a non starter to me. You are just going to end up another guy who is pissed of at a dealer, big deal, they are a dime a dozen.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-11-2009, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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The point is not whetehr the late service caused the problem or not. Even if it is a very small chance, it is valid. THis is because, if the situation were reversed, and the bike broke under guarantee, they would not have been happy to replace parts because the service was not done properly.

I did not touch the bike, ALL the servicing was done by Honda. If they screwed up doing valve adjusments or whatever, then that is their problem, not mine.

Either way I am pretty pi$$ed as it is clear to anyone that this is a dud bike that was sold to me, with problems that were not disclosed. I was sold a Honda in suposedly mint condition, by the dealer, and it was not.

No, I am going to the media, and I have a lot of places where I can take it. They can keep their pity money.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 05:49 AM
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Alright buddy, just remember that stealerships are called that for a reason. People whom had their frame welds give (clearly a manufacturing defect) often have trouble getting the damage paid for.

Best of luck to you

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I geuss you are right. Just cheesed's not about the money really. THey are offering a small amount, and that is bollocks. They should be paying for it. As I said, instead I'll rather trash them in the media. Not even trash them, tell it like it is (Supported by documentation) and let the public decide.

I let my secretary do phone calls to 20 dealerships yesterday. Of those who responded, ALL of them said first service must be done within 250-500km of 1000km. Mine was done 1400km after. The fact is, if it HAD been under warrantee, Honda would have refused as well, saying that the bike was not serviced correctly. Hence they are twisting it as they like.

These dealerships are sending faxes to me now, stating that the bike will lose it's guarantee if not serviced before 1500km. I told my secretary to tell them I have a cbr600 with 700km on the clock, and need this document.

So once I have a couple of these, then I can go shove it up Honda's nose (and the public lol), and say...Honda says one thing here, another somewhere else...
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-22-2009, 09:05 AM
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Was the bike used when you bought it? If so, then I am guessing it was traded in to the dealership for another machine.

How would they know if the bike was previously wrecked or had motor work done to it?
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