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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Question Regarding Model

Hey Guys,

No bike yet but I have been looking for quite some time and have been to different dealerships to sit on bikes and get an idea of what suits me.

I have a question regarding the CBR model distinctions....ie. how does the CBR600rr differ from the F4i? I went to the honda website but they both seem nearly identical in terms of stats.

I know the rr should be more of a race oriented bike..but is there really a big difference?

Thanks.

Richard

Modified 95 M3....No bike yet
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:40 AM
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tons and tons of handling and manufacturing differences..

the 600rr is race ready or rr

the f4i is just more of a comfyer sportbike now..

if you are planning on one of these as your first bike, FORGET IT

search on buying a new bike in the archives.. I wouldnt go anything over a cbr f2... alot of guys recommend going with 500cc sportbikes..

Your bound to drop the bike you ride.. We all do!
No matter what your experience.. Stuff happens!

04' Gsxr 1k

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

I have read the articles on numerous sites....seems like every site has a thousand posts a day by beginners looking for bikes and asking what to get.

I need to look into what the model distinctions mean more as f2 doesnt mean anything to me. Of course everything is kind of new to me in the mc world.

So basically r6, 600rr, 636, gsxr600 are all bikes that are race ready and therefore more tempermental and affected by inputs? And others like the f4i and yzf600 are bikes with less race oriented power bands and are more appropriate for a newer rider (I know few members agree with a 600cc for a first bike aside from the sv650)?

I appreciate the help.

Also, when i recently went to the dealership the salesman basically said all the Race Ready bikes listed above offer similar performance..which would seem about right to me...what makes the r6 a better choice than the 600rr or the gsxr600? Personal Preference?

Thanks.

Richard

Modified 95 M3....No bike yet
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 04:35 PM
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As a newbie you want to take the MSF Course first.

Remember all the 600cc four pot bikes & those up to 1000cc are barely street legal replicas of their road racers.

NOT the bike for one to learn on as they have peaky engines, & are not really forgiving bikes even to experienced riders.

A hair of an error & you can end up landing on the pavement hard along with your bike.

I know they look beautiful with all that ABS plastic, but if you drop the bike at 55 to 60mph & do not end up with a bent frame (bike is toast then) the cost of the plastics, & some parts will be around half the costs of the bike in the first place not to mention the m/c mechanic's costs to you in rebuilding the bike. Bar what your hospital costs were & how long you were tied up recovering.

So take a look at two bikes offered by Suzuki & Kawasaki being 500cc vertial twins & note we are not suggesting you start out on a 250cc. Both offer sensible riding positions, not a maze of plastic & good bikes in handeling.

Fact is when the red stop light shifts to green you will be faster off the line then most cages in normal take-off PLUS the bikes can scoot you up to around 100mph & believe me for a beginner that is a fightening speed considering you must balance the m/c & there is no protection around you like in a self-balanced cage.

I realize this was a sort of Honda question though you should have aimed the question on Daily Rider or New Rider so I stepped in to try & help. Your question was like that of any prospective m/c rider. So really not the ideal place for such a question.

For your interest I do not have a Suzy or Kwacker, but Yamaha 600 along with Honda CBR 929 & 954 in my garage for I am an experienced rider along with being ex-m/c shop owner & ex-racer.

Remember all the others on the road are crazy & out to kill you.

Last edited by Smitty; 01-03-2005 at 04:43 PM.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-03-2005, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smitty
[B]As a newbie you want to take the MSF Course first.
I had absolutely planned on that...no question about it...is it best to take the course after having purchased all riding gear and helmet...or let them supply it?

Quote:
Remember all the 600cc four pot bikes & those up to 1000cc are barely street legal replicas of their road racers.

NOT the bike for one to learn on as they have peaky engines, & are not really forgiving bikes even to experienced riders.

A hair of an error & you can end up landing on the pavement hard along with your bike.
Thats what I have gathered about the race ready bikes, does the same go for their more streetable counterparts..ie the cbr f4i?

I think the thought about going down as a result of a small error is true for all bikes...i understand the race ready bikes are ultra-sensitive to input but I think all bikes are.
Quote:
So take a look at two bikes offered by Suzuki & Kawasaki being 500cc vertial twins & note we are not suggesting you start out on a 250cc. Both offer sensible riding positions, not a maze of plastic & good bikes in handeling.
I had been looking at the sv650 as well as ninja 500r and I know that is the smart way to go..but as you said the fancy plastic sure is badass looking. I understand that is no way to buy a bike but appearance counts for something.
Quote:
Fact is when the red stop light shifts to green you will be faster off the line then most cages in normal take-off PLUS the bikes can scoot you up to around 100mph & believe me for a beginner that is a fightening speed considering you must balance the m/c & there is no protection around you like in a self-balanced cage.
I never said they were slow nor did I bash the idea of going with a 500cc bike which would be more newbie friendly. I think you guys are totally right in your suggestions for new riders.

I didnt say before that I have ridden dirtbikes and spent alot of time off roading on a kawasaki 100 dirt bike as well as my yamaha atv (I know this is far different than a street bike) but I do have experience with basic operation of bikes as well as some time on them.

I know this isnt a Honda issue but I started thinking about the differences between the f4i and the 600rr specifically when I asked the question about how much different the two are (I am still curious as to how much more street-friendly the f4i is)

Thanks a bunch guys for the advice...I appreciate it.

-Richard

Modified 95 M3....No bike yet

Last edited by 95RogueM3; 01-03-2005 at 06:25 PM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 07:46 PM
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Engine :
Both are 599cc inline fours, The rr should have about 10-12 hp on the F4i. If you look at a Dyno readout the rr makes more of it's power say above 8K rpm. The F4i will tend to make more mid-range power 4K-8k rpm's & less peak power. This puts the power in a more ridable range, rather than having to wring it's neck to get the power out of it. Thats not to say the rr is a dog down low, but there is a difference between the two.

Chassis :
The rr is pure race bike, stiff suspension & VERY responsive. Bar to peg ratio is typical tight tuck position. The F4i has much better ergo's and much softer suspension. Better ride, but when ridden at a brisk pace, it will tend to move around more than the rr. The rr is also lighter than the F4i. This can be felt in transitioning from right to left & stopping. The F4i will offer better wind protection and a better passenger seating area. To put is simply the rr is a race bike the F4i is a street bike.

Niether are a viable beginners bike, I started on a SV650 & I currently have one for the track(great track bike BTW). I ride a heavily modded RC51 on the street, not the most comfy ride, but the full Ohlins really help & I don't typically ride for long distances. I also have 5 years of ridding and 2 years of track time under my belt.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-2005, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by kawi jm
[B]Engine :
Both are 599cc inline fours, The rr should have about 10-12 hp on the F4i. If you look at a Dyno readout the rr makes more of it's power say above 8K rpm. The F4i will tend to make more mid-range power 4K-8k rpm's & less peak power. This puts the power in a more ridable range, rather than having to wring it's neck to get the power out of it. Thats not to say the rr is a dog down low, but there is a difference between the two.
First of all, great post..I really appreciate it. I understand there is a difference in the motors of the two bikes and that the rr is going to make peak power later in the RPM band, but does that neccessarily mean in terms of power the rr is that much "more dangerous" than an f4i? I know it will be harder to use the power in the RR as the bike needs to be worked..but both make similar power just in different RPMS.
Quote:
Chassis :
The rr is pure race bike, stiff suspension & VERY responsive. Bar to peg ratio is typical tight tuck position. The F4i has much better ergo's and much softer suspension. Better ride, but when ridden at a brisk pace, it will tend to move around more than the rr. The rr is also lighter than the F4i. This can be felt in transitioning from right to left & stopping. The F4i will offer better wind protection and a better passenger seating area. To put is simply the rr is a race bike the F4i is a street bike.
This makes sense as the RR would be setting you up for more race-like riding and would probably be less comfortable because of this. Would changing the rear sets on the RR allow for better seating through their range of adjustability?

Is lighter not better when trying to transition the bike into and out of turns? I understand if the bike is lighter it would be able to lift the rear wheel more easily under really hard front brake usage, but I would think it would be beneficial to have a lighter bike as the forces pulling on it would be less and therefore provide the rider with more control..is this wrong?

Quote:
Neither are a viable beginners bike, I started on a SV650 & I currently have one for the track(great track bike BTW). I ride a heavily modded RC51 on the street, not the most comfy ride, but the full Ohlins really help & I don't typically ride for long distances. I also have 5 years of ridding and 2 years of track time under my belt.
Why is is that the sv650 is so highly reccommended as a beginner bike? I understand the power is probably easier to get accustomed to for a beginner, but what makes it so easy to deal with as compared to the f4i which you have described as more of a streetbike than its RR counterpart?

Is there a reason the sv650 is so highly recommended over the Ninja 500r?

Is the main reason for the sv650 suggestion and not one of the RR 600s its reaction to input being much more sensitive or due to the thought that beginners cant control themselves and will abuse the power they are given?

Thanks for all your time guys. I really appreciate it.

**I had a better post typed out after spending awhile thinking of all the questions I had..but my computer somehow lost it and this is the best I could come up with in a hurry**

-Richard

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-2005, 05:02 PM
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First off the SV is cheap to purchase, especially used. It is also cheap to insure. Most insurance companies rate it as a touring bike or standard The SV is a very forgiving bike to ride. It has great engine braking. Say you get a little hot in a corner. Just rolling off the throttle will scrub alot of speed, without hitting the brakes. The SV is very good on gas and if you do spill it, parts are cheap and plentiful. I lowsided my SV at the track. $50 for a new rearset and I was good to go. To put it in perspective a friend of mine lowsided a F4i at the track and it cost $500 to get it back looking decent, and that is with used parts.

As far as the weight, depending on what kind of riding your doing, weight can be a good thing. In the twisties, yea lighter is better. On the freeway or long range riding, heavier bikes fair better IMHO. The heavier bike will generally have a smoother ride. The lighter bikes tend to get blown around and bounce more on the freeway.(suspension set-up dependant).

Inlines in general are not a very good engine to learn how to ride on. The power is not the problem, it is how the engine makes the power. The rr can be ridden very dosal. As the bike revs past 7K rpm's things get to cooking pretty quick and that is when things go bad. The power really comes on strong and can catch you off guard. It is hard to explain, and you can go into it with the best on intentions and still get over your head. I am not saying you can't learn on a 600rr, but you will learn more, faster & safer on a bike like the SV; than on the rr or F4i for that matter. The rr engine doesn't make much power down in the revs, but once it starts, look out. The F4i makes more down low, but still has a punch up top. The SV has a nice smooth power curve, no surprises, just smooth usuable power.

If your under the impression that the SV is not fast, you are mistaken. I rode with 600, 750 & 1000 inlines with no problem. They would smoke me in the straights, but I'd be right on there arse in the corners.

As far as altering the riding position on the rr. The rr is the way it is so that you have plenty of ground clearance for leaning. Granted it may not hurt inthe begining to lower the pegs, but as you progress it may cause problems. Dragging hard parts may sould fun, but levering the rear tire off the ground bacause you peg is dragging....sucks. Either raise the pegs higher or leave them alone, never go down. IMHO

A little more on the SV, the SV is just an easy bike to ride. You can make midcorner changes easily, braking is crisp (with front lines) all tis is due to the weight of the bike. The engine is strong and smooth, not to mention bulletproof. If you roll off the throttle of an inline 600, you almost speed-up NO engine braking. I would often ride without ever hitting my brakes. I had someone ask me once if my brake light worked? I'd slow down, but the brake light never came on. The engine offers the ability to slow down midcorner if needed without using the brakes. Using the brakes midcorner should be left to later in your riding carrer. For now you want all your braking to be done before the corner entry. The SV also helps build confidence. Riding is probably 90% mental. If your riding on a 600rr, and short shifting it, you know in your mind that your riding around on egg shells. Always aware and consious of where you are on the tach, that is attention that is needed on the road and your surroundings.

My advice,
Get a used SV, cheap, haggle on it. Put at least 10K miles on it, and after that maybe step-up. 10K miles will go by in no time. If you ride much Maybe do a trackday or two. I would wait until you had some substaintial riding under your belt prior to the trackday though. The new bikes will come, and there will always be something out there that lights your fire. The 600rr is not the last bike you will ever love.

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Last edited by kawi jm; 01-05-2005 at 05:07 PM.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 01-05-2005, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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That was the post I have been looking for. Thanks so much.

All of the newb posts asking about which bike to get had ended with the suggestion of Ninja 500r or the Sv650....but never any reason as to why.

Thanks again for your time and having thought about it, you are right, there is no point in having the power if it scares you to even attempt using it (like in the case of learning on an RR)

-Richard

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-29-2005, 08:28 PM
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::applause:::

kawi jm, that was beautiful!
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