......still can't do it - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2001
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......still can't do it

Help Me!
I still cannot get my bike to wheelie in second gear. How many rpm's should I be at to get it up? Someone with a 900 or better please help me
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 07:54 AM
 
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well I won't put in my .02 cents cause you can't handle it aparently. but why don't you tell us what your doing so we could advise you to do other wise. your bike should be able to do it, my old ass cb750 ss can.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 08:20 AM
 
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Autobahn,

I tell my customers to just drain the oil and then start the bike and run full throttle until it hits the rev limiter. This will totally destroy the engine even quicker than doing wheelies, and itís safer too.

Seriously, doing wheelies, especially when you have to clutch it up, will destroy just about everything that turns in the motor and drive train. I think we covered this before, but here it goes again. When the engine is revved up to 5000 or 6000 RPM and then you dump the clutch, the connecting rods impact that massive crankshaft that has just dropped to about 1000 RPMs in a fraction of a second. The strain on the rods is similar to striking your workbench with a hammer. These stresses are way in excess of what the engineers had in mind. Also, standing the bike straight up in the air and then slamming it down on the pavement is also way off the scale it terms of the design limits of the frame and suspension.

Very few bikes will do a pure power wheelie in second gear. You obviously don't have sufficient horsepower, so you'll have to resort to some kind of engine destroying process to get the crankshaft momentum to do the work for you. Personally I recommend that you just ride the bike, and enjoy all the things that a normal two-wheeled vehicle can provide. By the time you find just the right combination of delayed clutch or quick snap of the throttle, you'll be ready to get a new bike, and let the next guy spend a couple grand to rebuild your destroyed motor.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 09:48 AM
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DaveL,

I understand where you are coming from as a mechanic and I am not try to say in any way that wheelies are harmless to a motorcycle. However, I believe many of your opinions are mistaken.

First thing I think is incorrect is the statement you made about the loads handling capabilities of the chassis and suspension. Just about any new 600 or higher will lift the front wheel off the ground without trying. Especially with me on it at 135 lbs. The R1 will lift the front in 1st or 2nd without trying at all. The engineers design motorcycles with this in mind. As an engineer of any kind, you have included into the design anything a user can do to it. Otherwise you will have thousand of products being returned to you. Engineers study Murphy's law for this reason.

Back on topic, to answer your question Auto, your main problem is most likely timing. That and you want to pull the front up in as low RPMS as possible. Find a small bump in the road, hold the throttle at a little less than full open, take the RPMs up to about 5,500 and hold them there until you are at the peak of the bump. Right as the front tire hits the top of the bump, lean back and go to wide open throttle. As you lean back, try and pull the handlebars to your chest. It just takes practice. Make sure you do it in a safe place and be careful. Trust me that 900 will bring it right up, it just takes time.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 10:12 AM
 
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chris I gotta say I'm with dave on this one, the engineers do design bikes as well as cars to be used to there limits, but not abused. thats why when you take the bike back after you cook an engine the first thing they do is scope the engine to see if there is bad scaring, if there is then your ass is paying for it. also if they did intend people to wheelie don't you think they would have solve the oil starvation problems.

damn did you say you weigh 135lbs, time to hit the gym buddy
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SilentNEKO
chris I gotta say I'm with dave on this one, the engineers do design bikes as well as cars to be used to there limits, but not abused. thats why when you take the bike back after you cook an engine the first thing they do is scope the engine to see if there is bad scaring, if there is then your ass is paying for it. also if they did intend people to wheelie don't you think they would have solve the oil starvation problems.

damn did you say you weigh 135lbs, time to hit the gym buddy
They did solve the oil starvation problems specifically on the 996. It used to get an oil light when stood up, all they did was relocate the oil pickup. If a bike can bring the front end up under it's own power, the engineers design it to handle that. You never hear of an R1 being brought back for oil trouble due to wheelies. I never have and I've had my bike up for minutes at a time. I am very confident that Yamaha consider this when they build bikes. Otherwise, they'd have more calls, more new bikes being brought back to the shop (not to say it doesn't happen) and more bad press. Even if they don't cover the bike under warranty, each interaction costs money. I've had this conversation with a motorcycles design team that works with Honda. If you can do it to a bike, they have to think of it so it doesn't break. It cheaper in the long run

The only thing that power wheelies do IMHO, is kill the suspension quicker and break the mounting points of the plastic.

I have 15,000 miles on the R1. 6 months ago I checked the top end for clearance and did a compression check on it. Everything was well with in range. I does not leak or burn a drop of oil and pulls as hard as the day I bought it. I don't think that power wheelies with clean shifts are abuse.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 10:44 AM
 
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chris_y2k_r1,

First let me say that I often overstate something just to make a point. I have had to rebuild many bikes this year alone, and all of it has been the result of abusive riding. I recently had a customer with a new GSX-R1000 with only 2,300 miles try to tell me that his bike was designed to do wheelies and stopies or anything else he is capable of doing. Even with about $2,500 in damage, he just doesn't get the message.

Today's motorcycles are becoming faster every year, but what you don't seam to understand is that they are also becoming lighter and easier to destroy. I am also being deluged with front fork damage, blown seals, damaged stem bearings. This damage is not caused by riding down the road. It is the direct result of doing wheelies, pure and simple. Many of us like to convince ourselves that the engineers have accounted for all this nonsense. It's a lot like the way we mistreat out bodies. We smoke like chimneys and because we didn't croak yesterday we convince ourselves that we can continue smoking forever. It just doesn't work that way.

Motorcycles will last a long time when they are treated properly and maintained. If you give your bike a regular diet of wheelies and power shifts, its longevity will be reduced in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. I've had five bikes this year getting complete engine rebuilds, none of which had more than 12,000 miles. I have 120,000 miles on my own bike, must be the gasoline.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 10:49 AM
 
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well think as you wish, but no real mechanic that has any experience would agree. and why do you keep refering to yamaha, we are talking about a kawasaki here. anytime you abuse anything it wears down quicker, if you have a vette and burn up the rubber at every light it won't last long, the same goes for a bike, and everytime it hits the ground it does effect the engine, not just the mounts, its just like launching the sudden jolt kills the engine much quicker and usually more catestrophically(sp
)because of the extra inertial force being placed on the rotating assembly. thats why drag bikes, even though they are built for launching need rebuilts quite often. its just more stress then the bikes are designed for. and if the so called design team says other wise then they must really just be coffee boys. no offense.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveL
chris_y2k_r1,

First let me say that I often overstate something just to make a point. I have had to rebuild many bikes this year alone, and all of it has been the result of abusive riding. I recently had a customer with a new GSX-R1000 with only 2,300 miles try to tell me that his bike was designed to do wheelies and stopies or anything else he is capable of doing. Even with about $2,500 in damage, he just doesn't get the message.

Today's motorcycles are becoming faster every year, but what you don't seam to understand is that they are also becoming lighter and easier to destroy. I am also being deluged with front fork damage, blown seals, damaged stem bearings. This damage is not caused by riding down the road. It is the direct result of doing wheelies, pure and simple. Many of us like to convince ourselves that the engineers have accounted for all this nonsense. It's a lot like the way we mistreat out bodies. We smoke like chimneys and because we didn't croak yesterday we convince ourselves that we can continue smoking forever. It just doesn't work that way.

Motorcycles will last a long time when they are treated properly and maintained. If you give your bike a regular diet of wheelies and power shifts, its longevity will be reduced in direct proportion to the degree of abuse. I've had five bikes this year getting complete engine rebuilds, none of which had more than 12,000 miles. I have 120,000 miles on my own bike, must be the gasoline.
Your point well taken. I am quite sure I won't see 120,000 miles on my R1. I accept this but I do think that you can find a happy medium of fun and longevity.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-16-2002, 11:03 AM
 
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Davel

You use that expensive racing gas don't you, I hear it'll cure front end wobles, blown fork seals, and bad helmet hair in just one tank full. Read it on the net!!


I'd say learning to do stunts does do damage as I went through 2 sets of fork seals and probably should replace the stem bairings after some of my carrier landings. However, now that my landings don't result in seismic activity I think the wear is minimal. The whole point of stunts is to get good enough that they look smooth and easy. Once you can do this the wear is probably well within design limits. Until then you are definitely going to have premature failure potential.

Plus, I weouldn't clutch up 2nd gear wheelies, they should be the bounce and power up type which would result in no unusual stress on the bike IMHO. (I can't do'em on my bike without a big rise in the road. I blame it on 5-speed tranny, weight, cheap gas!!)
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