Liter Bike Safer than a 600? - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Liter Bike Safer than a 600?

I was talking with an R1 owner today who was argueing that literbikes are safer to operate than 600s and 750s. He would probably support that a literbike is better for new riders too, but he didn't say that specifically.

His arguement was that a literbike's power curve is more linear than a 600cc or 750cc which have power spikes, and this makes it more predictable, therefore safer. He also said that his R1 will go over 100 mph in first (which we all know) , which makes him less likely to use the higher RPM ranges, therefore avoiding all that dangerous power up top. Whereas on a 600cc bike, you would be getting into the powerband more frequently because it hits the high RPMs at a lower speed (I'm not sure if this is true in all cases).



Any thoughts? I thought this was kind of silly at first, but there may be some good points here...
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 05:57 PM
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I would sorta agree that a liter bike is safer for an Experienced rider..i.e. the power curve..But, I disagree that any of the above mentioned bikes are good for a "new" rider, they have too much power for someone that's NOT familar with motorcycles, and how they work. New riders seem to have to many " moments" and in a panic situation that could prove to be deadly. Granted, you can get hurt, and or crash on any sized bike, heard all the arguments about that for the last 5 yrs...

The reality is, sportbikes end to be heavier than say a ex500, or a SV 650..or a simular bike, these bikes are however MUCH more User friendly, and more forgiving than any sportbike will ever be..therefore, IF the new rider gets into a bad situation, he, or she is more likely to be able to deal with it, and have a better outcome, than if the same rider was on a 600, 750, or heaven forbid a 1k..

Keep in mind, that regardless of the type of power curve these bikes have, that they get up to Speed, REAL fast, and that's a downfall for the new / newer rider, reaction reflexes ect..are to slow in that stage of their riding..Example, a new / newer rider is out ridin with their friends in the twisties, some are faster, some not..The rider is on a 750..lets say, he or she comes to a fairly tight turn, that they may have misjudged...they in their minds are going much to fast to take the turn, first reaction to grab the brake, but wait, their fingers slip off, and they accidently grab the Throttle, I've seen it happen, more than once, so now what.?

The 750 is picking up speed at a Rapid rate, the rider is in full panic mode, and depending on the surroundings, i.e. guardrails ect...that could be their last ride. Now if they were on a EX250, 500, or even a SV650, with less power, and being lighter, and easier to toss around, I believe the riders chances of surviving are way better, sure he or she may have crashed, but it prolly was at a much slower speed, and what about the panic thing, would they have had more time to react..? Would the panic been lesser..? in the same situation..? Could they have made the turn..? I think you have to agree, that in all of these cases the answer would have to be at minium most likely, or yes.

I can tell you this, I have a 33 yr. old Son, and if he were just starting to ride, there's NO way, I'd recomend anything bigger than the SV 650 @ 70 hp...and he's 6'6" and 290lbs..

So, IMHO...keeping the throttle in check idea, goes out the window...ride with discretion..same deal, you can't control your enviorment...ride with experienced riders...same deal, They can't control your surroundings, or your actions either.

There are other things to consider also, but I've rambled on long enough so that you get the idea.

One last thing...Ask 100 experienced riders what the best bike is for a new rider, and that 100 should have at least 10 yrs, and over 50k miles under their belt, I bet 98% or better say the 650 or smaller....Do you suppose there's a reason for that..?

Ride Safe..

Old, Slow, but ...Smooth
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer 4


...Ask 100 experienced riders what the best bike is for a new rider, and that 100 should have at least 10 yrs, and over 50k miles under their belt, I bet 98% or better say the 650 or smaller....Do you suppose there's a reason for that..?

Ride Safe..

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 07:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer 4
The reality is, sportbikes [t]end to be heavier than say a ex500, or a SV 650..or a simular bike
Not really, most of the new 600cc and 1000cc class bikes are lighter than EX500's and SV650's.

For example, Suzuki's GSX-R1000 weights 364lbs dry vs the SV650s at 372lbs and the EX500 at 388lbs. The 600 only weighs 354lbs.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 08:11 PM
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Dry weight, then add 4.7 gals of gas....

And you believe their claims of dry weight...?

You happen to have the dry weight of a EX 250..?

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-08-2005, 11:31 PM
 
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dont forget to add oil, coolant, and all the other fluids to the dry weight.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hammer 4
Dry weight, then add 4.7 gals of gas....

And you believe their claims of dry weight...?

The dry weights of the manufacturer are actually quite accurate. People don't take into account the characterization that the company applies to the "Dry Weight" of a particular vehicle. You have to add 4-5 gallons of gas at about 7 something lbs. a gallon. Also, don't forget the front and rear tires. You might want to put in some oil and coolant fluids. I think the chain is not included in the dry weight of the bike. There may also be a few smaller things I'm missing.

The dry weights of the manufacturer are quite applicable to the comparison of the weight these particular bikes. This isn't a NASA study.

Last edited by Ice; 12-09-2005 at 06:28 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 03:08 AM
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What's probably most relevant is the very tame seating position of the EX and I think even the SV. Good footing makes real pounds disappear. Look at Harleys for example.

Keeping the "Hap" in "Happy Holidays"!

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 04:32 AM
 
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If you are comparing dry weight vs dry weight why even bring fluids into the discussion? The main reason an SV650 is a great starter bike is because of the powerband.

Back to the OP, that guy was on crack. He says they are safer because you dont ever get to the powerband??? Well if he is doing 100 in first he is in his upper rpm range. A 600 is easy to keep out of the powerband because it doesnt even start until 7 or 8k.

Modern liters are pratically the same size as the 600s with scary hp and unforgiving handling. Maybe he is a new rider that is trying to convince himself he isnt about to die.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-09-2005, 04:50 AM
 
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Safer for an expirienced rider? maybe. But an expirienced rider shouldnt have a problem with either bike.
As for newbies, if its a race replica, its a death trap, its just as simple as that.



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