Interesting prices by Yamaha!!! - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-20-2004, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Interesting prices by Yamaha!!!

I noticed, here in Cdn, the '04 Yamaha 600r is at suggested retail of $9,799 while the FZ6 is $8,999. Does sort of make one wonder I must admit.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-20-2004, 06:27 PM
 
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so 800 dollars more for fearings? Ok if thats what they want to do, but I do agree it makes you wonder.
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-20-2004, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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I think there is more to it then just less plastics on the FZ6 for my understanding, & her I could be wrong, is that the FZ6 has the more modern R6 engine & so superior cog box & clutch, lower compression ratio, to a slight change in cams & that the FZ6 would also have the fuel injection system along with the alloy frame vs pressed steel frame of the 600r. SO it has me wondering as I have not read a write-up on what the FZ6 is like in specs vs the 600r.

Be interesting to read the truth on the two bikes & then is the $800 justified?
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2004, 02:49 AM
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One possible justification would be lower number of units produced. To speculate from the outside though is just that, pure speculation. Many times product prices are dictated by factors that have little connection to cost of production. Maybe they can give away faired bikes, then make the money back as they sell replacement plastics and related crash parts. They aren't giving those pieces away. I've often wondered what the ratio of produced plastics to number of complete bikes produced is. 2:1 maybe?

Different subject but related. I've often thought that the disconnect between sale price and production cost was why we don't have nice 400cc four cylinder sport bikes. I find it impossible to believe that the cost of production between a 600cc and 1000cc four cylinder sport bikes is even $100, yet they are on the floor at thousands difference. The cost to make pistons, cranks, gears, etc. in slight dimensional variations are so close that it defies counting. All of the costs except ounces of cheap raw material and the slightest variation in the time a cutting tool is engaged with metal remain the same. The same applies to go to the smaller 400cc. It won't cost measureably less to produce than a 600, but the market will expect a significantly lower price.

I know that's not a definitive answer but can be food for thought on the general topic.

Keeping the "Hap" in "Happy Holidays"!

Regime change begins at home.

Blind patriotism is worse than no patriotism.

Last edited by Dad; 01-21-2004 at 03:31 AM.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2004, 06:23 AM
 
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I think it all boils down to supply vs. demand. They know that considering the demand for the bike they are getting the extra $800...
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2004, 04:45 PM
 
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Dad the only thing about what you said that made me think about production coasts. IDK if these bikes are produced on an assembly line or not, But I did read about yamahas YZ426F and now the YZ450F. (yes the dirt bikes) They are on a production line I belive. Now the coast could be different if there machines that makes these parts can not be change for different sizes. If they can then yea I don't see where the extra money comes in but if not I could see it to an extent. But IDK how there machines work.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-21-2004, 06:32 PM
Dad
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Quote:
Originally posted by EdgeRanger
Dad the only thing about what you said that made me think about production coasts. IDK if these bikes are produced on an assembly line or not, But I did read about yamahas YZ426F and now the YZ450F. (yes the dirt bikes) They are on a production line I belive. Now the coast could be different if there machines that makes these parts can not be change for different sizes. If they can then yea I don't see where the extra money comes in but if not I could see it to an extent. But IDK how there machines work.
"One possible justification would be lower number of units produced. To speculate from the outside though is just that, pure speculation." That's directly quoted from my first two sentences and what I'm referring to is all of the fixed costs that still are assigned to a product, producing ten or ten thousand. Justifying manufacturing and assembly methods comes under that broad heading. As units go up, the share of fixed costs per unit are rapidly lowered. Pick some arbitrary numbers and do some division to crudely demonstrate that to yourself.

What I'm saying about the machined component parts is true, though. Pistons, rods, gears, and the like are all parts that are produced on highly efficient machines that are designed to produce those types of parts. The dies and tooling for parts like piston blanks have a fixed cost initially but those are pretty quickly amortized with a reasonable production run. The same machines that finish the blanks will have the capacity to produce any piston that any bike uses. They know not the difference.

My intro to the vast difference between production cost vs. sale price was in the 1970's on a line of motor actuators. They were made in 10 ft. lb. to 350 ft. lb. torque units, in two basic body sizes. The one I recall specifically was the 10 thru 90 ft. lb. body group. Within that group, a variety of torques and speeds were produced, about twenty in all. All of the parts were common to all of the units with the exception of gears, motors, capacitors and hardware directly associated with those components. The housings, covers, gaskets, limit switches, cams, terminal strips, output shafts, manual overides, etc. were physically the same. They were priced to the user depending on torque and speed and ranged from a low of $220 to a high of $980. The actual cost to produce from the lowest to the highest cost was about $30 and that was mostly realized by the slower speed units because they used more reduction gears to accomplish that slower speed. For example, the production cost difference between a specific two models of the same speed, the 10 and 25 ft. lb. units, was $O. They used a different value motor capacitor at no cost difference. The price charged to the customer was about $100 more for the 25 ft. lb. unit.

The lowest cost unit was pretty indicative of what the production cost was and was even a little tough to turn a buck on, but did help with parts volumes, assembly line o'head, etc. As you went up the range, it was like printing money. I see many similarities in manufacturing four cylinder sportbikes.

Keeping the "Hap" in "Happy Holidays"!

Regime change begins at home.

Blind patriotism is worse than no patriotism.

Last edited by Dad; 01-21-2004 at 06:35 PM.
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