Need help with overseas sales fraud - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
 
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Need help with overseas sales fraud

I am selling a 1995 Nissan 240sx.... I know, not a bike, but we have talked so much about these sales fraud schemes lately.

I got an e-mail from a supposed dealer in the UK that says he wants to buy the car for the full amount I am asking for a client. I am pressing him for details... This doesn't sound quite like those schemes so far... What do you guys think?

Comments: HELLO,
I AM AN AUTO/SPEAR PARTS DEALER IN LEICHESTER UK. AND I HAVE AN
INTRESTED BUYER FOR YOUR VEHICLE AND IS WILLING TO OFFER $5,000.
PLEASE KINDLY REPLY AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
REGARDS,
GREG McAVOY.

I replied:
Greg,

I am willing to sell the vehicle for $5000 USD. How would you move the vehicle, and how would you arrange payment?

Kevin


he replied:

KEVIN,
THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY, THE SHIPMENT AND EVERY OTHER CHERGES WILL BE HANDLED BY MY CLIENT.HE WILL ISSUE YOU A CASHEIR'S CHECK FOR YOUR PAYMENT.SO, I NEED THE FOLOWING INFORMATION FOR PAYMENT TO BE DELIVERD.
...................LEGAL NAME (as to be written on the check).
...................MAILING ADDRESS.
...................PHONE NUMBER(s)
THANK'S
GREG.

I then replied:

Greg,

In light of some highly publisized recent overseas sales schemes, I'd like a little bit more information. What bank will the cashiers check be drawn on? How will the car be delivered? Will a representative of your client come to my home to pick up the car? Is your client in the US or in the UK?

I'm not trying to complicate the sale, I just need a bit more information.

Thank you
Kevin




I am still waiting to hear his reply. What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 09:58 AM
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So far, none of the info's stuff that can't be easily gleaned from Google. You're taking the right track, no doubt. If possible, get a phone number from him, in addition to an address for his business and check on them. That'll be further support for your own security.

If they're willing to send the check and allow it to clear into your account before release of the car, I say go for it! You've really got nothing to lose then, do you?

EDIT: Oh, be sure to give him a work phone number and address. This would complicate (slightly) any identity theft plans.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 10:28 AM
 
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You know the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I wouldn't do it. You'll end up giving your car away, IMO.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 11:11 AM
 
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Smells like an identity theft scam.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 11:38 AM
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Why the hell would someone from the UK want to buy a 240sx from the states? They could probly get one over there for like $3k. Theres a couple guys from a WRX board that moved there and bought Skylines for like $10-$20k. I would have deleted the email as soon as I read he was form the UK. Even if he was legit, you could get what you`re asking over here, and not have to go through all the trouble of figuring out where a shipper is, and then getting it there, and then worry about everything working out with the title and what not... I say forget it.

Look . . . the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals, we haul your trash, we connect your calls, we drive your ambulances, we guard you while you sleep. Do not fu|< with us.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 12:05 PM
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There are many different angles that have been worked in these scams.

One angle is the check itself. From what I understand, it goes something like this. What they do is give you an official looking document from an overseas bank that you deposit and your bank then processes for their payment. Because of your bank's policy that states they won't hold funds for more than example, five days, they credit the amount to your account, which you use to indicate it cleared (sounds logical), but then several weeks later, when the check proves to be bad, the bank withdraws the funds from your account. The car is gone and so is your money. You are still responsible for the funds because yours was the last signature on the check. You'll receive the check back to persue collection from the previous signer, probably the issuer, but you'll not be able to find him and you'll be screwed. As in all check deals, the last signatory is responsible for the funds, working its way back to the originator. If there were five signers, it works its way back until somebody can't collect from the previous, and he becomes the one who got screwed. If you somehow proceed, discuss this concern with your bank and don't release the car until the bank tells you they have been satisfied completely.

The other is when they come up with schemes, however convoluted, that result in them having your bank account number and/or your signature. They may start the process some other way that appears legitimate, but then call you with the, ".... oh yeah we forgot or, the bank said... or, but we need your acct. number for X,Y,Z reason".

Are those cars that hard to find, that desirable, or that much cheaper over here that the deal sounds like it has any legitimacy?

Keeping the "Hap" in "Happy Holidays"!

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Blind patriotism is worse than no patriotism.

Last edited by Dad; 01-09-2004 at 12:10 PM.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dad

Are those cars that hard to find, that desirable, or that much cheaper over here that the deal sounds like it has any legitimacy?

Some 240's are rare. This one is not. Its bone stock, with an automatic tranny. That was one of my first red flags. Second, why would someone EVER offer what I am asking? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I had already planned that if this deal went forward, that I would not release the car untill the check cleared the issuing bank, which is why I asked what bank it would be drawn on. I was also thinking about asking him if I could pick the bank it was drawn on. It wouldn't be that hard to wire money to a remote bank, and have them issue a cashiers check to customer.

I hadn't even considered the identity theft angle. I had considered providing some of that information in my last reply, I am sure glad I didn't. Thank you for pointing that out.

Well, those first 4 e-mails were all exchanged in under an hour. Its now been almost 8 hours since the last e-mail, and no further reply from him. I'm guessing its a scam, and he has moved on.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 03:31 PM
Dad
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevlar7R
I hadn't even considered the identity theft angle. I had considered providing some of that information in my last reply, I am sure glad I didn't. Thank you for pointing that out.
They already tried that? It's not so much just identity theft as it is their ability to have money wired right out of your account. When it's drained, it's gone. I'm not sure of the details, just that it can be done. They'll sometimes use the ruse of needing your account number to wire YOU money.

We used to get these at my work where they wanted to wire money to us as a way to show expenditure on a contract that was completed but had a million or so unspent dollars in a fund. For us doing this, they would allow us to keep half. Obviously, they needed our account number to send us the money. They were usually from African countries who had no legal resiprosity treaties with the US so there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it once they got the money. I have since heard of some operating or claiming to be from Europe where legal treaties exist, but before you were done you would wind up in Botsawana or something. Be careful!

Keeping the "Hap" in "Happy Holidays"!

Regime change begins at home.

Blind patriotism is worse than no patriotism.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 03:32 PM
 
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what DAD said is probably wjhtst going on, tell him you want a western union money order, not a bank check, and make sure that you get the casf from western union first. if he says no, he is bsing you...
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-09-2004, 03:49 PM
jrm
 
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ask police

There are undoubtedly many folks related to various governments working on catching frauds like this. Ask local police, who to mention it to. It is (most likely) not the only deal a foreign fraud has going and it may be the necessary piece of the puzzle someone needs to catch them.

That said, tell the buyer you will sell car for $4500 CASH in trade for not having to deal with a cashier's check. There is nobody out there who is SERIOUSLY interested in buying anything (not on credit) that couldn't come up with real cash IF they have a properly funded check issued by a real bank.
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