Comparo's and Italian bikes - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2002, 03:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Comparo's and Italian bikes

I keep reading these uneven comparo's. The 998R and the RC51. What's the deal there? I even thought it was weird a year or so ago when the same comparo was done with the RSV, 996, RC51 and the RC51 was bestowed top honors! Even then I found it strange company.

Before I go on I'd like to say for the record I like almost all Italian motorcycles. However the ones I like the most when taken into consideration the price makes them very unattractive.

Now that's out of the way. How can you justify comparing a $30k bike to a $11k bike? I don't recall comparo's with say a SB8R and a 916, or a Tornado and an MV? Maybe they're worth their price? Maybe they are a tad better bike? But certainly not $20k more. If I'm wrong in my inquery of dollar value. Than you certainly can't justfy the comparisons. That needs to be addressed. I think a good idea worth exploring would be to take tuned bikes from local shops, and privateer's and explain in detail what and how advancments were made.

Perhaps a "Bike of the Month"? Instead of repetitive comaprisons with perdictable results. I'd like a review of after market parts. I wanna know if a pair of Marchesini rims are functionable or simply fashonable and if so quantify it. Or if "wave" rotors help you really stop faster during the course of repeated hot laps. Or are they just bike jewlery?

At any rate I'm bored with the exclusivity pitch. To me that's not what motorcycling is about. The only thing that makes motorcycling "exclusive" is the lot of us having the desire to ride even if it means driving a less than desirable car in the winter months. Or arriving at work soaked, or dealing with the contempt that some cage motorist regaurd us.

Oh well I'd like to get some feedback from the forum, what do you guys think?

www.bimota.it/
www.mvagustausa.com/
www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/
www.benellimoto.com/
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-07-2002, 06:35 AM
 
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Thumbs up

I agree with you!
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-09-2002, 08:48 AM
elo
 
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Re: Comparo's and Italian bikes

Quote:
Originally posted by RC51inJapan
I keep reading these uneven comparo's. The 998R and the RC51. What's the deal there? I even thought it was weird a year or so ago when the same comparo was done with the RSV, 996, RC51 and the RC51 was bestowed top honors! Even then I found it strange company.

Before I go on I'd like to say for the record I like almost all Italian motorcycles. However the ones I like the most when taken into consideration the price makes them very unattractive.

Now that's out of the way. How can you justify comparing a $30k bike to a $11k bike? I don't recall comparo's with say a SB8R and a 916, or a Tornado and an MV? Maybe they're worth their price? Maybe they are a tad better bike? But certainly not $20k more. If I'm wrong in my inquery of dollar value. Than you certainly can't justfy the comparisons. That needs to be addressed. I think a good idea worth exploring would be to take tuned bikes from local shops, and privateer's and explain in detail what and how advancments were made.

Perhaps a "Bike of the Month"? Instead of repetitive comaprisons with perdictable results. I'd like a review of after market parts. I wanna know if a pair of Marchesini rims are functionable or simply fashonable and if so quantify it. Or if "wave" rotors help you really stop faster during the course of repeated hot laps. Or are they just bike jewlery?

At any rate I'm bored with the exclusivity pitch. To me that's not what motorcycling is about. The only thing that makes motorcycling "exclusive" is the lot of us having the desire to ride even if it means driving a less than desirable car in the winter months. Or arriving at work soaked, or dealing with the contempt that some cage motorist regaurd us.

Oh well I'd like to get some feedback from the forum, what do you guys think?

www.bimota.it/
www.mvagustausa.com/
www.ducati.com/od/ducatinorthamerica/
www.benellimoto.com/
Do you only like the RC51? Is it the first, last and only bike you will ride? If so, then your complaining about comparing the 996/998, RSV Mille R and the RC51 is justified. Otherwise, you need to take into account that some people don't like the styling of one bike over another, won't find one bike as comfortable as another, and are simply willing to pay a little extra for an Italian bike. Not everyone is happy with just one version of a 1000cc V-twin sportbike. If I read the latest comparo properly, the RC51 wasn't hands down the best of the three bikes, the Aprilia was a close second with the price being the main factor.

I think the Aprilia and Duc are included in these comparos, as opposed to MV Agusta, the Benelli Tornado or the Bimotas because of price and availability. Ducatis and Aprilias, while considered "exclusive" high end bikes are far more common the other brands mentioned. Almost every fairly large town has a Ducati dealer, and you don't have to hunt halfway across the country to find an Aprilia dealer. You do have to do this for the other brands.

Also, most of us will have the opportunity some time in our lives to sit on/ride an RSV Mille R or a 996/998. Most of us will never have the same opportunity with a Benelli Tornado.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 07:33 AM
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I agree that Rag comparos are largely a bunch of crap, however they provide the reader a single article with which to compare similar category bikes. Unfortunately, the focus on most is track performance, which isn't valid for 97% of the readership.

I find this particular comparo you mention quite interesting, as those bikes are one's I'm seriously considering. Here's a few comments from owners, shops and racers:

RC51: Great motor & chassis, brakes are OK but will go bye-vye with extended track use. Need major suspension work within 10,000 of road use, or before serious track use. Good value, but with modifications, they approach the cost of the others. Decent road manners, cramped riding position. Unusual styling.

Ducati: Superb track bike, top flight components, maintenance intensive, minimal modification required for serious track work. So-so raod manners (uncomfortable to some) Beautiful, classic styling.

Aprilia: Superb track bike, top flight components, better road bike than the Duc, less cramped than the RC, reliable, but parts availability can be spotty. Unusual styling. Uncommon.

Long term items: This came from a major dealer of Honda-Ducati, heavily involved in racing and a well-regarded shop. The Honda is a great bike, but will need suspension work for extensive track use. In 5 years it is "disposable". The Ducati (and Aprilia) are on the same par from a performance aspect. Honda has a tad more power, but the Duc & Aprilia get the nod on handling and braking. Longterm, the Duc and possibly the Aprilia, will have better values. In 10 years, they are classics and still desireable.

Exclusivity is a very interesting thing. To some it means little, to others, a great deal. A Timex will tell you the time just as easily as a Rolex. There was recently a car comparo between a Subaru WRX, the hot Audi and the BMW 330 xi (?). For the most part the Subi had the overall advantage, yet for MANY consumers, the BMW & Audi will get their $$$, not Subaru. In 10 years the Subi will be someone's winter-rat and the BMW or Audi will likely be in far better shape. Exclusivity is not just about image, it can also relate to long-term value.

Personally, I'm not fond of the RC's riding position and styling. I do like it's build quality and engine performance. The Ducati concerns me from a maintenance standpoint and it's really not very comfortable. The Aprilia has appeal, but I'm not fond of the styling and concerned about parts. I love twins, so, as with most things in life, it's a compromise.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 07:42 AM
elo
 
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Hey Tahoe! FWIW, since we bought the RS250, I've spent many, many hours on the internet looking for parts and just gleaning knowledge about these bikes. From what I've found the most ubiquitous Aprilia parts are RSV Mille R parts. Anything you want is a simple click away, you just have to trust the online source. (Aggrivating since parts for the RS are almost non-existent on the 'net) Also, the Aprilia Owners Club is an extremely helpful bunch and the President is a member of SBW, his screen name is Track Time. If you can't find someone with them to help you, it doesn't exist!


(in case anyone missed it, I love Italian bikes!)
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 07:56 AM
 
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My real problem with the comparisons(I believe is what the point that started this thread) is that they usually compare the RC-51 to the Mille R and the 998R(or whatever the $30k version is called this year). They seldom, until recently, compare the base Aprilia Mille and Duc to the RC-51. If you put $30K into an RC then the Duc nor the Mille are going to touch the RC in performance in any category. Hell, if you put $16K into a 2002 RC they aren't going to touch the RC in performance.

That being said, who gives a shit. If you like the Mille or the 998 and money isn't an issue then get the Italian stuff. If I could afford a Mille R then you can bet your ass I would be riding one. I wouldn't spend $12K for a 998 but I would own a Mille R. IMO it is the best 1 liter twin out there for all around use.

The RC shouldn't be compared to the MV or the Benelli or the 1 liter fours or etc. That isn't it's market competition.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-10-2002, 08:57 AM
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Going to look at these in a couple days:

2001 Aprilia RSV R, yellow, pipe & chip, mint 800 miles, asking $14K

2001 RSV R, flat black, stock, 1500 miles, asking $13K

I figure that I can likely buy one of these for around $12K. They are essentially new. Goes to show you how bad the depreciation is in the first year. (List on an RSV R is $17K) Great for me, bad for sellers. Buying a "used" bike can also cut the registration/sales tax deal too, here in Nevada.

(sorry for the thread drift)

Kev

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-11-2002, 05:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Re: Comparo's and Italian bikes

Quote:
Originally posted by elo
Do you only like the RC51? Is it the first, last and only bike you will ride? If so, then your complaining about comparing the 996/998, RSV Mille R and the RC51 is justified. Otherwise, you need to take into account that some people don't like the styling of one bike over another, won't find one bike as comfortable as another, and are simply willing to pay a little extra for an Italian bike. Not everyone is happy with just one version of a 1000cc V-twin sportbike. If I read the latest comparo properly, the RC51 wasn't hands down the best of the three bikes, the Aprilia was a close second with the price being the main factor.

I think the Aprilia and Duc are included in these comparos, as opposed to MV Agusta, the Benelli Tornado or the Bimotas because of price and availability. Ducatis and Aprilias, while considered "exclusive" high end bikes are far more common the other brands mentioned. Almost every fairly large town has a Ducati dealer, and you don't have to hunt halfway across the country to find an Aprilia dealer. You do have to do this for the other brands.

Also, most of us will have the opportunity some time in our lives to sit on/ride an RSV Mille R or a 996/998. Most of us will never have the same opportunity with a Benelli Tornado.


Do you only like the RC51? Is it the first, last and only bike you will ride? If so, then your complaining about comparing the 996/998, RSV Mille R and the RC51 is justified.

--------------------

Negative, In my short years (28) I've owned a KZ650, EX250, ZX-6, CBR400RR, ZXR750 (ZX-7R), CBR400RR, and now a RC51. I alomost bought into the HYPE. Here in Japan I saw an immaculant 916 for less than $9k. I considered it, then decided against it. I've been on one. I remember them being about the size of my 400cc bike except the Duc was blistering hot on my bum and even more cramped than my 4. That was enough really, but the price made her simply easier to egress from the sensationalism. I'm a realistic man who understands his limits. I don't believe I'll be any faster, or any less unattractive, or any more exclusive riding a Duc. In the end I could only justify the expenditure as a shallow trophy.
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Otherwise, you need to take into account that some people don't like the styling of one bike over another, won't find one bike as comfortable as another, and are simply willing to pay a little extra for an Italian bike. Not everyone is happy with just one version of a 1000cc V-twin sportbike. If I read the latest comparo properly, the RC51 wasn't hands down the best of the three bikes, the Aprilia was a close second with the price being the main factor.

--------------------------

Your missing my point. Why pay more for an Italian bike? And why SO much more? Considering the RC51 fared the best in that particular comparo you must take into account that it cost far less than the Italian entries.
I'm not saying the RC51 is the best big sport twin. (that's subjective I'm certain of that) I would have included the TL1000R but the way people act when I bring it up its like it happened a decade ago. That project was doomed over bad press, point blank. I wish the TRX 850 was sold in the states because I feel it brings more varity we ALL crave. Maybe if the majority wasn't so predictable some attention could have been paid to the TLR and the TRX and they could have possibly evolved and been competitive. I think the world would have been a better place if there had been a TRX"R". We can all hope for an evolution of the SV's.

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I think the Aprilia and Duc are included in these comparos, as opposed to MV Agusta, the Benelli Tornado or the Bimotas because of price and availability. Ducatis and Aprilias, while considered "exclusive" high end bikes are far more common the other brands mentioned. Almost every fairly large town has a Ducati dealer, and you don't have to hunt halfway across the country to find an Aprilia dealer. You do have to do this for the other brands.

----------------------------

By this deduction of logic you could conclude the same for the April's and the Duc's and thus exclude them from comparison. At least the "R" versions which are not only given advantages by Ohlins, and Brembo ,etc but are economically out of reach by MOST consumer's. Hence my suggestion to eliminate the already twice as expensive base models and refuse the comparison of the $30k "R" bikes with bikes that cost a THIRD. Even though the results are in the favor of the economical choice.

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Also, most of us will have the opportunity some time in our lives to sit on/ride an RSV Mille R or a 996/998. Most of us will never have the same opportunity with a Benelli Tornado.

-------------------------------

Put yourself on the list and buy one.
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