Warming up Tires - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2002, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Warming up Tires

Would it be a good idea to go in a zigzag pattern (if no traffic) to warm up ur tires, like the cars do before a race or after a pit stop during a yellow flag like they do in nascar and f1?
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2002, 06:55 PM
 
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a month or so ago someone posted a n actual test on the track on the zig zag theory of tire warmups. the result showed it had no or little effect on warming tires. hard accelleration and heavy braking warm them.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2002, 08:07 PM
 
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I can see perhaps hard braking (or dragging the brakes like they do in race cars) can transmit some heat to the tires to help them warm up, but how can hard acceleration warm them up? Unless you're doing a burnout the whole way of course. It might help a little, but I can't see it being more help than weaving aggressively.

Riding hard is what warms up your tires in the first place (leaning, turning, etc.), so how is that different (except for the speeds involved perhaps) from weaving for a while?

Emrah
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2002, 08:25 PM
 
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I can't give you an exact explanation, but this is how I understand what I have read about tire warming; Weaving does not help to warm up the tires faster. It is true that hard acceleration and hard braking warm them, as does HARD corning. Tires don't actually warm up because of the friction they have with the road, but actually warm up from the friction within the tire as it changes shape and rubs within itself ( the molecules?). Basically, weaving back and forth cannot put enough strain on the tire to help warming, and may actually help to cool the tire in some instances. The article mentioned in the other reply can be found here;

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld...eb00/weave.htm

Good stuff in that test. I have stopped weaving to warm tires now (now I just do it for fun )
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-22-2002, 09:24 PM
 
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Nevada got it right IMO.

Basically you warm a tire WHEN you are utilising traction which deforms the tire and causes friction.

Thus you will warm a tire under hard acceleration BUT that heat is generated in the center and as far as I can tell heat is NOT well transmitted from one area of a tire to another. Therefore heat in the center from acceleration is of limited use in heating the sidewall for cornering.

Zig zagging doesn't require much traction because there is no sustained cornering force therefore there is no heat generated.

To warm a tire requires cornering or tire warmers. PERIOD.

Take the first few corners at lean but not too hard. This will build heat after a short time.

In reality though, not much street/canyon riding requires fully warmed tires so unless at the track where it's easy to warm a tire is it really important???????????????
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2002, 07:47 AM
 
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Yeah, several riders in the race-school I took were told, while on the track, to knock off the "squid weaving" before they hurt someone.

I sure wouldn't discount simply putting several street riding miles on as a source of warming. Heat distributes itself pretty uniformly over time. That should mean from the source outward even if you were just riding normally.

I don't have warmers, so I ride at least a 1-lap warmup (2 miles at the local track) before getting aggressive, and prefer a little more, just for peace of mind.

The people I've talked to that have the warmers say what they get, is the confidence that their FIRST lap is as tight as my 2nd or 3rd. After that, I think we are all equal.

I don't think you can "hurry" it much without warmers.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2002, 11:28 AM
 
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"Weaving" is ONLY useful to help scrub in new race tires and it's usefulness is limited for that. It's much more likely to cause you to collide with someone else on the track than to be of any benefit scrubbing in tires. It has NO BEARING on heating up the tires at all.

You just have to take the first lap sort of easy, then progressively corner harder and harder until you are confident with the tires. Usually the tires will be plenty warm to get up to race pace by the end of the first lap. It is, as stated earlier, hard braking, accelleration and cornering that heat up the tires. Chickenhawks can save you a couple of seconds on the first lap...may be critical depending on the class you are racing in. If you are in Expert Superbikes and you don't have them you are going backwards...sort of like Nu-Tech.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-23-2002, 12:37 PM
 
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BUT....

...if you ride a GS500 in Clubman-Novice you might find the warmers cost as much as your bike...
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2002, 04:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by emrah
I can see perhaps hard braking (or dragging the brakes like they do in race cars) can transmit some heat to the tires to help them warm up, but how can hard acceleration warm them up? Unless you're doing a burnout the whole way of course. It might help a little, but I can't see it being more help than weaving aggressively.

Riding hard is what warms up your tires in the first place (leaning, turning, etc.), so how is that different (except for the speeds involved perhaps) from weaving for a while?

Emrah
Don't confuse heating up the brakes with heating up the tires

Why can you see hard braking, but cannot see hard acceleration?

it is effectivley the same thing. When you brake, you are creating a resistance on the rubber against the ground on which it is rolling.
(creating heat)Hard braking would do this faster.

So too, is what happens when the tire(rubber) is under hard acceleration.

In either case, you are not really creating friction.
Only because, friction is always present. If there were no friction you would not be able to accelerate(move from a standing position)
and, conversely, you would not be able to stop(if you were moving).

So you are creating heat, when performing one of these two action.

And yes, the heat starts off "localized", at the point of contact. That is most understandable(hard braking or hard acceleration woould not create heat in your left rearview mirror )

so the heat starts at the point of contact and then heats the entire tire. you do not nead to make road contact in all parts of the tire to heat it up( if you ride straight for a while, your tires will be sufficiently warmed up).

Last edited by Sbninja; 06-21-2002 at 04:49 PM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2002, 05:21 PM
 
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Well, ya got me convinced. I suppose it makes sense now that it's explained.

Oh, and about the "brakes heating up" thing. I was referring to a race car trick where riding your brakes while on the power on a warmup lap transmits quite a bit of heat to the rim and tire to help heat them up. Or do like Schumacher does and light 'em up coming off the last corner before gridding up...

Emrah
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