Where should Buells be classified - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
View Poll Results: What performance/motorcycle category should Buells be placed under??
Street class: (w/ Katanas, Nighthawks, etc) 22 78.57%
Supersport class: (w/ the 600 SS's) 3 10.71%
Harley class: (w/ sportsters, softails, etc.) 3 10.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2002, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Question Where should Buells be classified

Hi Everybody,

I've gotten some harsh remarks (not from anybody here at SBW) but on other sites about commenting on performance features and capabilities of Buells vs. the 600's, 750's, open classers, Duc 996's, etc. After owning an M2 and 2 Suzuki sportbikes, the reliability and performance has been night & day. I'm not trying to start another heated debate between Buells and imports I just want to see what everybody feels...

Any Buell dealer (at least where I live) will tell you that though underpowered top end, an M2, S3, or X1 will be EQUAL to a GSXR, CBR, YZF-R, or ZX-R in HANDLING and SPEEDS under 80 mph. That's what I've heard from local H-D/Buell dealers.

I know how I feel I just want to be democratic and see what the rest of you guys & gals think...

PLEASE SEE THE POLL...thanks

Last edited by gsx-in the city; 04-23-2002 at 04:53 PM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2002, 05:12 PM
 
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Street class

All magazines discussion with eric buell that I have read have made it clear that the firebolt was designed to be the "best handling streetbike".

This clearly makes it NOT (intended to be) a supersport or a race-replica.

Therefore, I am voting to put it in the streetbike category.

In that category, it may be competitive, except for that price thing.
desmo079 is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2002, 05:21 PM
 
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Buells?

They may have a place, but so does a Suzuki Bandit. They are a hoot to ride through a twisty mountain pass just the same as any other bike.

Buells will not be considered "True" Sportbikes until they become at least a threat on the track (against something other than similar Buells)

This aside, the Firebolt looks better than their previous attempts and seems to be closer to a true effort.

The fact that they could not hold a candle to most sport bikes on the track should take nothing away from them, but if Buell thinks they have built a true sportbike, they are wrong. I don't care what the numbers say, I don't see any champagne gettin splashed on them.

I would say that anyone that owns one should do so proudly, but don't try to defend it against any true sportbike with even half the displacement because you are gonna lose.

There's my 2 cents.

Regards-
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-23-2002, 05:59 PM
 
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Which Class? How About RATTLING JUNK?
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 02:09 PM
 
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Not all sportbikes are fast sportbikes, and not all sportbikes are cutting-edge technology-wise, either.

For example, the Katana (which I've even seen termed a "standard" ) is a sportbike; just not a cutting-edge one. Remember, it won the AMA Supersport championship back in '88 or '89. It's still in the lineup because it's A) cheaper than a GSX-R600 and B) doesn't require you to do pushups on the handlebars.

Anyhow, the Buells... I've always felt they were great sportbikes in search of an engine. There's no doubt that the chassis/handling/tires/riding position/brakes are up for some serious scratching, they just have an engine that won't be letting them win races with the latest Japanese iron, that's all. Is an MG or Miata less of a sports car because it can't race Porsches and Corvettes?

I do tend to take riders of Buell/BMW R1100S/Ducati 750SS as pretty serious sportbike riders, because they seem to get the fact that there's more to sportbike performance than wheelies and dyno numbers and plastic fairings.


I'd venture to say that a Buell is every bit as much of a sportbike (if not more so) than a ZX-11 or Hayabusa, if we take the definition of "sport" as cornering in the mountains and not going fast in a straight line.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Post Many defininitions of a sportbike

I'd venture to say that a Buell is every bit as much of a sportbike (if not more so) than a ZX-11 or Hayabusa, if we take the definition of "sport" as cornering in the mountains and not going fast in a straight line. [/B][/QUOTE]QUOTE]Originally posted by Tamara

A lot of good points....

But I have owned an M2 and a Hayabusa. I also have a buddy who owned an S3 who now owns a Hayabusa.
We both agreed hands down, that bar technical tracks and roads under 25 mph (such as the canyons you mentioned) that a Hayabusa is a better handler. But to each their own. Buells are a great backroads bike.

I know a salesguy at a local H-D dealer that said he has a sport bike. When I asked what kind he said a Harley Dyna-Sport (or whatever that Superglide with better tires is called). So definitions of sportbikes vary greatly depending on who you talk to.

I just started this poll because I want to see what others think. And to see if anybody else has heard from Buell dealers about the delusional performance capabilities Buells will have vs. a GSXR or R6. (e.g., telling customers who are buying their 1st bike that a Buell will handle neck in neck with a GSXR.) Another dealer in Milwaukee even said an X1 will hang with a Hayabusa or R1 to 55 or 60!!! None of this is to take away ANYTHING from Buells. They are a popular bike. It's just to clarify bogous performance comparisions.

I got chided by somebody who said in reference to the 600's:
"Blah Blah Blah!!Horses for courses!!...600's are for the track...Buells are good street bikes" That's all true and fine... .., then leave it at that and don't compare it to a Japanese bike that
underweighs it by 75 lbs, has a better chassis, and has 25 more horses at the wheel and will ditch it through corners over 15 mph (provided the riders are close in skill)


Take Care

Last edited by gsx-in the city; 04-25-2002 at 02:48 PM.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 03:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tamara I'd venture to say that a Buell is every bit as much of a sportbike (if not more so) than a ZX-11 or Hayabusa, if we take the definition of "sport" as cornering in the mountains and not going fast in a straight line.
I disagree.

A sportbike is a motorcycle that was designed to compete in road racing.

I don't think that a xz11 or a Hayabusa were built for with that purpose in mind. Neither was a firebolt. They may end up being raced, but that was not their intended design.

I think we're stretching a bit too much here to classify a firebolt as any thing other than being a streetbike that was designed to go around sharp turns fast. It may end up BEING raced, either against other firebolts, or against restricted sportbikes, but it was not designed for that. That is what Eric Buell has said.

The line is fuzzy b/w steet bikes and sportbikes, I admit, but I am going mainly by what Mr. Buell has stated.

Yes. I know that R1,R6,xzx9/6, gsxr600/1000,F4i, 954 come with rear foot pegs and a passenger seat, too, but they were designed to be raced, although not every one made is actually raced.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 04:36 PM
 
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Sportbike=racebike?

The 600 Katana was designed to go supersport racing against the then-new Hurricane and sell well to street riders.

Buells and BOTT racing owed their gestation to each other.

The Ninja 250 and 500, by that definition, are not sportbikes, nor are the seminal GPX900 Ninja and GSX-R1100, while the FJ600 and GPz550 are.

That distinction might be cutting it a bit fine.

I think there are plenty of sportbikes that aren't race bikes, but that there aren't many racebikes that aren't sportbikes. (Just like there are plenty of sports cars that aren't race cars.)

Last edited by Tamara; 04-25-2002 at 04:40 PM.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cool

And in the end...
TO EACH THEIR OWN!!!
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-25-2002, 05:21 PM
 
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OK,

You guys and gals are ALL delusional!

I don't care if you race them or not, or they were designed to be raced or not.

We all have a pretty good idea of what a sportbike is, and I sincerely doubt that if you think SPORTBIKE and close your eyes, any of you will see a Buell appear. That doesn't make it a bad bike, and it may be the sportiest bike so far with a Harley in its DNA, but fit in the true definition of a sportbike? Sorry. Is it pretty cool? yes. But so is a Supermotard they race them and I don't consider them sportbikes either.

What's this better handling under 80 mph crap? Which one of you doesnt go faster than that daily?

If you you want to say the new Firebolt is a sportbike, fine. It just isn't a very good one. I say it isn't a sportbike. Especially considering anything even close in displacemanet will destroy it on a track, or a backroad with riders of equal skill.

Regards
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