1st bike depends more on just 'size' and model - Sportbike Forum: Sportbike Motorcycle Forums
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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1st bike depends more on just 'size' and model

It amazes me how many threads I see about "What should my first bike be" or "Is a 600 Sportbike too fast to start on?" - I also get annoyed at the threads that say you will most likely go down on your first bike. It seems that a lot of people that ride sportbikes (not trying to stereotype) have no business being on one. It is easy to differentiate between the two just by reading some of the threads. I have the utmost respect for people that respect their bikes and the power they contain. And I have no problem with people that learn from their mistakes. Any time you try to push yourself, you may end up on the ground, and sometimes it is the only way to know your limits. However, telling someone that a 600 is too much for them to start on if they have never rode a motorcycle is total bullshit. I could not agree more in some cases. I can pick a punk ass kid out on a sport bike that has never had any experience what so ever on anything else that has no idea how to use the power of his bike, or the danger of it. This kid should learn on something else first and have some respect for what is under his ass.

I can see riders also going down on their first bike, simply because they are not qualified to ride. Anybody that has ridden dirtbikes, three wheelers, or four wheelers in the past and adjusted to them well should have no problem riding a street bike. But too many idiots just jump on a sportbike and think they can ride them because they want to pose and look cool.

I bought my first street bike about two months ago - I have put close to 3000 miles on it (thanks to my truck being down!). It is a 97 CBR 600. I thought it would be the right bike for 'me' to learn on. When I went to buy it, I had a friend ride it home for me, and we went out to a parking lot and rode around on it. After about an hour, I already felt pretty comfortable on it. I then started riding it around the streets after I got my permit. After about 300 miles, I was really comfortable on it. Now after about 3000, I want a 929rr. Yes, a 600 is plenty fast - faster than hell, but I have got used to the power and I respect it. I grew up with dirtbikes, three wheelers, and four wheelers. I got into three and four wheelers pretty heavily and learned at an early age the consequences of riding above my ability and not respecting the reponsiveness of a two stroke engine =) (250r Three wheeler - still miss it!). Anybody who has ridden a cr 250 or a banshee is not going to wow at the power of a 600 sportbike (It is going to feel a little different, but still common to them). Hell a Banshee that has been ported, polished and bored with drag pipes could run with a stock CBR up to 80 mph.

I guess my point is that your first street bike is only relevant to 'you' - not to what everyone else blows up your ass that has never respected power until they crashed on their sport bike - Get what YOU want, as long as you respect power and know the dangers of it.

And above anything else, **** the posers in here. You can pick them out - they have a cool bike but have no experience on anything else, but their sportbike (and yes, that is stupid) - They like to brag about wheelies (some with women on the back) and going fast - everyone likes to wheelie or go fast every now and then - but the ones who brag about it are the ones who most likely bought their first bike and laid it down within the first 500 miles and now think they are a great rider.

I have learned a lot in these forums. There are a lot of people in here that are useful and friendly, just wanted to vent about a few of the post I have read.

Sorry for the long read.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 12:30 PM
Pete
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Re: 1st bike depends more on just 'size' and model

Quote:
Originally posted by mgering

Sorry for the long read.
Don't worry, I skipped most of it.
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Talking Re: Re: 1st bike depends more on just 'size' and model

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Originally posted by Pete


Don't worry, I skipped most of it.

Not a problem Pete(r)
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 01:23 PM
 
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Well, if you've only got 3K mi under your belt and want a 929, my opinion is you still don't know jack. I'm one that posts the "Fire and Brimstone". I don't wheelie (except occassional power wheelie), don't cruz' the strip, don't pick up girls (my wife would kill me). I've been riding since I was 10 years old. 50's, 70's, 125's, 250's, 350's, two stroke and 4 stroke, and yes, I've been on a Banshee.

I've fallen dozens (probably hundreds) of times in the dirt. And I've been down more than once on the street.

I've helped friends start riding and helped many pick their bikes. I've also seen a few friends (more than a couple) go down. I am only trying to point out to the new riders that if you sport ride on the street, chances are you will go down. I think that as a responsible older rider, we should point out the very real danger of going fast to the newcomers of the sport.

I will restate my position again, if you ride fast, be prepared to go down. I will say with that piece of knowlege, the smart thing to do is be dressed for it, wear your leathers!

BTW, my first off-road excursion took place at around 8K mi. Get back to me then.

Sorry, but I can be as long winded as you...just joking!
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 02:23 PM
 
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Smile

I have to respectfully disagree with you regarding your statement about how telling a person who has never ridden a motorcycle that a 600 is too much for them to start on is bull****.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, but with no experience riding bikes, especially sportbikes, a normal person simply does not have the skills. It is certainly possible to learn on a 600 or even a larger bike but a smaller bike is much more forgiving with mistakes. I think one of the most important skills a rider must develop is throttle control. If you're riding a smaller bike and get a little nervous in a turn and don't maintain proper throttle control, the consequences will probably not be as severe as if you were on a 600 or higher because you don't have as much power. It's not a matter of respecting the bike or knowing your limits, it's a matter of skill development.

I'm not trying to offend you or anything. You may enjoy many years of accident free riding on the street and I hope you do. All I am saying is that I don't see a downside with starting small and working your way up when you you're ready.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 02:56 PM
 
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oh

downsides to starting with a small one in money man. the only bike ive ever riden has been my friends 01 r6. ive riden it like four or five times and feel pretty comfortable. all im planning on spending on a bike is $4k. im looking at f3s and ~95 zx6rs. im not about to buy a 250 ninja just to turn around and sell it in a month. if you think im a stupid kid whos going to kill himself, ok, we will see. im tired of all the "ive been riding for 50 years" boyscouts. just because it took you that long to get comfortable with a bike, doesnt mean it that way with everyone. im not backing up what the first thread said either. he said his experience on 3 and 4 wheelers helped him ride a sportbike (which i dont understand at all).

ok, bring on the comments...
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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First of all, I agree with a lot of what has been said and replied to in my post. I just think that some people are more capable of starting off with a high performance bike than others. It is not to knock on the people that are timid of the power and would rather get something smaller. I think that is the right choice. But, if I would have bought something smaller for my first street bike, I would have been very disappointed. To tell me I don't know jack is the exact type of post I am talking about. You don't know how well I adapted, or how well i didn't. Each person is born differently. A highly coordinated person is going to adapt a lot easier to the required skills to ride a sport bike. That is all I am saying. And yes, I think I could have learned on a 929RR - Laugh all you want. It is just past experience on other things, and I adapted well. Yes, a lot more power, but I am not an idiot who is going to push my limits until I am ready. I too, have been down in the dirt over 100 times. And each time you get up, you learn something new. I tend to not push things like I did when I was younger. I am older, wiser, and above all else, the pavement is not forgiving. I will never ever be able to ride my CBR to its limits, and god forbid a 929, but when I get up in 4th gear on my 600, I would rather be on a 929, not for breaking the sound barrier, but for roll on power. I was never comparing three wheelers or four wheelers to street bikes. Read again if you have to. They are worlds different, and so are dirt bikes for that matter. But one thing that stays the same is throttle control. And the power is somewhat similar, All of them can get out of hand in a hurry. I just caught on quick because the power was something I was somewhat used to. I caught on quick to cornering as well. - There are more similarities in throttle control that in effect control everything else, and I just think my past was beneficial to my learning. I am just being honest, not trying to flame, not trying to disrespect anyone. It takes some longer than others. For those who don't understand the difference between two stroke and four stroke (which, I am sure some people in these forums have never ridden a two stroke), you would not understand the similarities in power between something of 250cc's and 600cc's. I don't find it impressive that someone has been riding for 500 years. Everyone is different. A football player does not have to be in the league for 12 years before he has a 100 yard game. Some adapt better, some don't. Who cares???? - It is all about how you handle things, and what feels comfortable to you, and having fun.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by mgering
First of all, I agree with a lot of what has been said and replied to in my post. I just think that some people are more capable of starting off with a high performance bike than others. It is not to knock on the people that are timid of the power and would rather get something smaller. I think that is the right choice. But, if I would have bought something smaller for my first street bike, I would have been very disappointed. To tell me I don't know jack is the exact type of post I am talking about. You don't know how well I adapted, or how well i didn't. Each person is born differently. A highly coordinated person is going to adapt a lot easier to the required skills to ride a sport bike. That is all I am saying. And yes, I think I could have learned on a 929RR - Laugh all you want. It is just past experience on other things, and I adapted well. Yes, a lot more power, but I am not an idiot who is going to push my limits until I am ready. I too, have been down in the dirt over 100 times. And each time you get up, you learn something new. I tend to not push things like I did when I was younger. I am older, wiser, and above all else, the pavement is not forgiving. I will never ever be able to ride my CBR to its limits, and god forbid a 929, but when I get up in 4th gear on my 600, I would rather be on a 929, not for breaking the sound barrier, but for roll on power. I was never comparing three wheelers or four wheelers to street bikes. Read again if you have to. They are worlds different, and so are dirt bikes for that matter. But one thing that stays the same is throttle control. And the power is somewhat similar, All of them can get out of hand in a hurry. I just caught on quick because the power was something I was somewhat used to. I caught on quick to cornering as well. - There are more similarities in throttle control that in effect control everything else, and I just think my past was beneficial to my learning. I am just being honest, not trying to flame, not trying to disrespect anyone. It takes some longer than others. For those who don't understand the difference between two stroke and four stroke (which, I am sure some people in these forums have never ridden a two stroke), you would not understand the similarities in power between something of 250cc's and 600cc's. I don't find it impressive that someone has been riding for 500 years. Everyone is different. A football player does not have to be in the league for 12 years before he has a 100 yard game. Some adapt better, some don't. Who cares???? - It is all about how you handle things, and what feels comfortable to you, and having fun.
amen.
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 03:50 PM
 
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Re: oh

Quote:
Originally posted by dash
downsides to starting with a small one in money man. the only bike ive ever riden has been my friends 01 r6. ive riden it like four or five times and feel pretty comfortable. all im planning on spending on a bike is $4k. im looking at f3s and ~95 zx6rs. im not about to buy a 250 ninja just to turn around and sell it in a month. if you think im a stupid kid whos going to kill himself, ok, we will see. im tired of all the "ive been riding for 50 years" boyscouts. just because it took you that long to get comfortable with a bike, doesnt mean it that way with everyone. im not backing up what the first thread said either. he said his experience on 3 and 4 wheelers helped him ride a sportbike (which i dont understand at all).

ok, bring on the comments...
Money?? When I said I didn't see a downside with starting small I was talking about safety and skill development, not money. If you can't see that, you're already behind.

Also, didn't I say in my post that it IS possible to start out on a 600 or larger bike? I was just giving my opinion based on my experiences (and the experiences of others) with people that have no riding experience. I didn't mention anything about age, the same applies to a person no matter how old they are, so don't get senstive about your age.

You're going to do what you want but I will make a suggestion. Take that $4k, buy a used EX for $2500 and spend the rest on gear, YOU WILL NEED IT.

As I told mgering, I honestly hope you have many years of accident free riding, but you would do well to start small, take the MSF course and any other you can find, and move up when you have developed good skills. Whether you want to believe it or not, riding a friend's new r6 four or five times is not the best way to go about it.

Oh...and by the way, you are not in the same situation as mgering who seems to have had plenty of riding time in the dirt and I'm sure is doing fine on that CBR.
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 07-11-2001, 04:37 PM
 
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Experience with bikes is one thing. Experience riding in traffic is a whole different ball game. I've been riding for 15 years and many miles. So far ALL of my accidents have involved cages. Most of my wrecks, and certainly my most serious ones so far, happened in the first 2-3 years of riding. With 3,000 miles you're still a newbie in my book. I'm not saying you can't handle your machine, just trying to clarify that you're really not that experienced yet. If you plan to ride long term you can pretty much give yourself a 99.9% guarantee that you WILL go down some time. Your experience, knowledge, ability, safety gear and (unfortunately) luck will determine the frequency and severity of these incidents. The type of bike you have plays a role as well. An R1 is simply a lot more capable of putting you into a dire situation than an SV650. You can throw a pilot with 20 hours flight time into an F-18 and he might be careful and skillful enough to not crash it, but I sure as hell wouldn't bet money on that. Part of riding responsibly is pacing and controlling yourself. Well, that should be applied to your motorcyle purchases as well. Every teenager I see that buys a GSXR1000 as their first street bike feels quite confident they can handle it. They just wonder why some local old geezer on a 1960's BMW twin smokes them in the twisties.

Look at how few of the older liter bikes are still around. Hell, it's rare for me to see any '98-'99 R1's around already. Even the experienced riders are having a hard time keeping them on two wheels. I know that my bike is way ahead of my riding skills and that I could very well end up as road-pizza every time throw a leg over it...but that's how you can tell the wise riders from the inexperienced ones. We know our place. Nobody's ever perfect but, the longer you ride, the better you understand your own limits. That's the key.
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