: Removing the 'Kleen' system from a 2000' ZX9R
09-30-2005, 02:39 AM
can anyone tell me the correct way to remove the California emission system. I have a bike that I bought with the canister removed and need to verfiy that all was done correctly.
I've got a flooding problem that so far have not been able to figure out. I've replaced all the float valves, adjusted the float heights, checked most of the bikes hardware out and it still floods.
The bike runs and idles perfect once started, but noticed fuel pooling up on butterflies when bike is hot and parked after riding.
When float bowls are empty, bike starts right up with no smoke from exhaust. The smoke when it happens, smells strong of fuel.
All diaphrams in carbs are perfect and floats are not cracked. all jets are tight and cleaned up carbs. Bike did this when I bought it. Bike has a Muzzy header and K & N filter.
All hoses are there for vacuum valve and vacuum switch. Vacuum valve tube which went to breather and canister is plugged off. Gas tank rear where it was connected to the canister is connected together between 1 and 2 tank tube. Reed valves are still connected to the vacuum switch.
No hoses pinched either.
09-30-2005, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by rosalk
Gas tank rear where it was connected to the canister is connected together between 1 and 2 tank tube.
I've been thinking about this a little since last night...Seems that it is unlikely that the gas is coming through the pump/float bowl route, so that leaves this assembly right here.
Run your bike as usual, and then pull these lines & see if they are flowing gas. Kinda have the feeling they might be.....
09-30-2005, 06:35 PM
I was trying to put a picture in, but couldn't figure that one out.
Their are (3) hoses on the rear of the tank, just under the seat. One is a drain hose and the other (2) were for the emission hookup. It should be about the same as your tank overflow hose, but there are (2) more there.
I you e-mail me at email@example.com I will have your e-mail and can send you some pictures.
10-02-2005, 04:41 AM
I found the correct way to remove the clean system extra parts, see picture.
10-03-2005, 12:12 AM
That's a ZX12 frame, but I suppose the plumbing is the same..Let me look at my manual, and see what it says......
I spent a good deal of time looking at my manual...There is little info about the Cali plumbing... In the pictures you posted, none of the parts shown relate to this plumbing...additionally, the 12 is a fuel-injected bike with a high pressure pump. Yours is a carb bike with a low pressure pump, similar to a ZX11.
Clear this up for me - I'm not sure what you are saying here....."Gas tank rear where it was connected to the canister is connected together between 1 and 2 tank tube" Does this mean that the two tubes leading from the gas tank are now connected together?
Let me put it another way...Are you absolutely certain that there is no connection between the fuel tank and the manifolds other than the fuel line which goes to the fuel pump?
10-03-2005, 02:41 AM
Yes, the rear of the fuel tank and not the bottom where the petcock is are connected together. See picture;
There are no other hose besides this and the fuel hose going to the fuel pump. That's it.
I have looked all over for directions on removal of the California emission system and had read about the details of connecting the reed valves together and removing the vacuum valve switch hose from the airbox but was not quite sure if all I read was correct. While doing a search on the 2000' model, I came up with this and the hardware for the vacuum valve switch listed is identical.
I started the bike last night and initially with float bowls dry it seemed to start a bit harder. Almost like the choke was not giving out as much fuel. After starting it sounded real good at all rpm's.
Did not take for a ride, but let it warm up real good. Turned off the bike and let it sit a few minutes. Bike started up and flooding while starting seemed a little better.
Hope this was the right thing to do.
10-03-2005, 11:41 AM
Alright, tell me if I'm seeing this right....Starting from the left, it seems that #1 & #2 are connected together by a kinked hose. Where does #3 go?
10-03-2005, 03:16 PM
#3 is the overflow that just hangs down to the bottom of the bike like most bikes have.
I was able to take the bike to work today. It seems that the problem may be resolved. I put a few gallons of gas in, walked in and payed for the gas came out and started it up without any problems. Bike didn't smoke or smell like fuel either. I have never been able to start it (after bike is warmed up or hot and waiting a few minutes) without giving full throttle, and holding the starter button in for about 1 minute with fuel smelling smoke coming out.
After work when I started it it had no smoke and started normally.
The bike also previously would sound like it was breathing after it was hot and parked. This was the fuel on top of the butterflies getting sucked in and then bubbling up. Tonight there was also no breathing noise.
I will keep an eye on it for a few days and see how the starting/flooding issue turns out.
I also did have the vacuum switch somewhat checked, and it seemed 'OK'. It took about 40lbs. of pressure to move the switch.
Let me know what you think.
10-03-2005, 03:33 PM
Glad to hear it....:thumb:
Just out of curiosity, how old is your battery?
10-03-2005, 04:47 PM
The batteries dated 02' amd it holds a charge real good. I'm supprised because of all the cranking I had to do to start the thing most times. I've only dove this thing about a dozen times since July 1.
I just went out to start it after 3 hours of sitting. Petcock was left on. Bike started with no choke but a 'little' twist of the throttle. I was supprized!
I received an email from someone else on this topic, he mentioned this;
you need to make sure that the vacuum ports on the lower part of the intake track have been plugged also
Is this meaning the "rear of the cylinders under the carbs"?
#2 & 4 hoses from rear of cylinder went to valve switch and were plugged off last night. (vacuum switch removed)
Should #1 cylinder hose be plugged also? And intake of vacuum valve?
10-03-2005, 08:00 PM
All of the vacuum ports, located on the manifolds between the carbs and the head, should either be connected to each other, the vacuum port on the petcock, or blocked off....The vacuum valve doesn't matter...
10-03-2005, 09:29 PM
All of those ports need to be plugged in some fashion. If you don't plug them, then you have a massive vaccum leak. Plug them with something that requires a tool to remove. If you use a rubber cap, put a hose clamp on it. Better yet put a bolt in it. If the bike ever backfires, these ports go from vaccum to high pressure very quickly.
When removing the emissions systems, the bike generally needs to be leaned out. I haven't done any research, but I suspect it is a system similar to that on my ZX-7R. The big valve that connects to the air box delivers pressure to the float bowls. The air pressure in the bowls must match the inlet air pressure for the fuel to flow. This valve actually blocks the pressure during hard acceleration, for some reason. To make up for it, the stock jets are huge.
I removed the valve, bridged the reed valves together, switched from 170/180 stock jets, to 165/170. I also removed the shims I had been running on the stock needles, and I left the float height stock. The bike has the stock airfilter, and a Yoshimura full system exhaust.
It now pulls STRONG everywhere in the RPM range. It used to come on very hard at 7000, but now accelerates smoothly through the full range. I haven't had an exhaust gas analyzer on it yet, but it seems good.
My point is, You probably need to rejet, to lean out your bike. It is probably running very very rich. Possibly even rich enough that vaporized fuel is condensing on yop of your vutterplies..
Sorry about the misspelling, a Girls Gone Wild commercial came on while I was typing.
10-04-2005, 05:49 PM
note: if you have resolved the problem, you also need to change your oil. When the engine is flooded while sitting the fuel seeps past the rings and into the crankcases.
10-04-2005, 07:48 PM
Thanks, I've been changing it after aprroximately every 90 - 100 miles, been a real pain. Just changed it last night, again...
Wow! I messed up! The started so good yesterday but this morning I was thinking about the 2nd cylinder intake (previously thought it to #1) which goes to the vaccum valve.
Taking a look at previous threads it was stated that all intakes must be plugged.
First thing I did this morning befroe work was plugged the intake and I also thought to plug the intake of the vacuum valve. MISTAKE, could hardley keep the bike running.
Next I took out the vacuum valve plug. I couldn't even get it to fire so I left it.
Came home at lunch and hooked it back up. Was smoking on startup. Drove it to work and after work it wasn't like yesterday anymore, didn't start the best.
The hose that I capped from intake 2 may have been pinched. The hose is supposed to go around the left side of the engine, but for some reason it origonally was to the right. Since I cutoff 1.5" this morning, I ran it around the left side of the bike. There was a slight twist where it went into the engine, so I rotated it to the left. Hope this may be it.
Butterflies had fuel on them again. I really don't beleive that it did yesterday. It started so good and no smoke!
Tonight I also checked all the floats to make sure they were 'OK' not sure if this can happen, by maybe backfire?
Anway, it's all back together for another day. I hope this is it.
Here is some good information on totally removing the emission from someone that has been very nice and seems very knowledgable on what he's doing. I really appreciate it.
I've attached 2 pics showing what I mean about these. It shows the hoses in place, but they are all plugged when you're done. You mention the "vacuum valve" as remaining? That comes off too. All 4 intakes should be plugged the same way. Loose the emission valve and the vacuum valve. When you do this, you'll have to vent the float bowls back to the airbox as show in the first pic. The head should be completely clean with no cannisters remaining.
10-04-2005, 07:52 PM
Here's the other pic